TESTS THE DCM FEAR MACHINE
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| looks familiar? |
Lately there has been much talk and spreading of rumors of many dogs who die of DCM or related cardio illness. If the dog had an actual autopsy, and the owner has made public the result - then that is good and respectable.
What is not respectable and dishonorable is to spread rumors and make assumption that any dog which died without autopsy is because of DCM. According to internet chatter...It seems like almost 90% of any Dobermann who dies is result of DCM? Is this possible? Think carefully before making a rumor or listening to them.
The Dobermann is a dog. An animal. A living being.
They do die of other reasons too... Even show Siegers or working dogs..
We applaud those who will come forward with true evidence on reason of dog deaths. We applaud those who present evidence and report their own dog's deaths in public. But we condemm those who will jump to conclusions without proper knowledge or information.
In fact, what we are most concerned of is how some people are using DCM as a scare tactic against other breeders and owners.
Such people are posting things like this in public. You can view this so called 'list' of dead DCM at Dobermann Review chatboard.
Where are the autopsy reports? Where are the medical reports? Is is not much easier to just publish a list of dogs with no supporting documents, and say this dog died because of poor breeding and heart issues?
We wont be surprised if the DV and their puppets [ and frog] are behind all this. After all, they can use this as great tool again to control and threaten and manipulate.
Is it strange no Citone, Bavaria, Klingbach dogs are affected or published? So why attack everyone else without the supporting evidence too?
We are not against autopsies, testings and to work towards slowly eliminating the scrouge of DCM. But we take offense to those who will spread rumors and false knowledge. You are making the life and work of Wiblihauser, Pezzano much easier. Remember carefully the hidden agenda in the End of Tolerance letter...
You be the Judge!
But before we go...
We also wish to add this little note on DCM. This is exactly what is written on the paper you get your DCM test results on, from the leading testing centre. We feel it is worth a good read, and understanding. Those who have had test results back will be familiar.
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| And thats the truth. From the Lab itself. |
Concerning your list of dobermanns died by DCM:
ReplyDeleteI can only speak for my dog Elegant Elvis (Balou vom Residenzschloss x Irinland Ulysses Uriah), who died at the age of only 2,5 years by DCM. I myself put him in the list at dobermann forum on dobermann.com - and there are a lot of people who wrote about their dogs also - they all gave knowledge and proof of this horrible disease!! So I do not agree to your commentary - a lot of dogs really died by DCM, and some, like mine, at a very early age ... :(
It is a shame that the 24-h-EKG-Holter is no longer a "Must Be" for all dobermanns - there certainly were many breeders against it! Who really wants to throw out his dobermann out of breeding because of heart disease??!! NO ONE!!!
Everything is a big lie ...
And the genetical test for DCM is bullshit - it does not proof anything! My doctor told me that there are more than 20 genes which carry DCM on them - and the test controls only one gene - that's ridiculous!!!
Anyway: there is even no guarantee for heart disease even if you regularly check your dobermann by EKG-Holter! E.g. the parents of my poor Elvis became 10 and 9 years old ... so what?!
can nalso give such an example : Focus I litter , combination Gino Gomez ( he lived at least till 11 years) and Focus Sonia ( she lived for sure 12 1/2 years) Offsprings ; most of them died by proven DCM, only one is alive at this moment ( D.B 2001)
Deleteme on the other side, I agree with the post! I deeply respect those who give correct informations on their dogs (with medical feedback!) and condamn those many who just spread rumors or gossips...it's a genreal histery regarding dcm...and certanly it's not the way to find a solution! remember, we're ALL walking in the same shoes!
ReplyDeleteThe list is from German site dobermann.com , but who put it on dobermann-review added 3 Jahrestal dogs which were not on the list. But the fact is that a lot of dobermanns are dying because DCM and not because other diseases. So this post , in my opinion is not OK and doesn't sustain the fact : DCM is the most frightening and widely spread disease. Just because Citone , Klimbach or Nemesis is not on ther list doesn't change the facts . And or we do something or we shall hide our heads in sand to not see the truth
ReplyDeleteNumbers please. Give us the numbers! "A lot" means nothing but your own personal statement! We want to see the % of deaths caused by so called DCM. Everything else is a filthy lie and hysteria.
DeleteIf you are a club member of IDC , please ask your president to show you the papers with studies made in Finland. Otherwise if you want proof, please make yourself a blog on which owners can post their sadness regardind loosing dobermanns at age till 8. Do not be stupid, or ignorant. You can find a lot of forums and places there you can find owners crying after DCM died dobermanns. And if this doesn't scare you , nor Meurs ,Finland and american studies, you are not a responsible breeder nor a loving owner. You want numbers, wow. What will be your deficit in your country this year ?! It's more simple to calculate this like number of dobermanns died by DCM, even in both will be mistakes and lies.
ReplyDeleteI think it is Ayman's duty to maintain and provoke such grief...and he seems to be a pervert who actually enjoys it, because clearly he is making his little online cariere on other people's misfortune which is disgusting btw.
DeleteHe induced some American desperate housewives in the action, people that have no idea about Euro-breeding and are mixing their cases which are product of decades long separated breeding issues.
As per studies, again: give us the numbers instead of bullshit!
And hided DCM died dogs number will have much more influence on numbers of statistics than on your country's deficit lies
ReplyDeleteYou support false statement with another of same?!
DeletePlease do include other relevant info such as:
ReplyDelete- the food that you have been giving to your dog
- way of life/habits
- whether the dog was under severe weather or physical conditions
As with all living beings heart condition can be caused by a lifestyle and other external factors!
No, it's not his duty. Ask your club's president. It is his duty, you elected him/her
ReplyDeleteliving in North America. every 2 hours I have a phone that asked me if I have puppies for sale. Ask those who are former propretari of America Doberman dogs blood. or working lines from Germany and Finland. are sick of shit that you eat it on various forums. .
ReplyDeleteAmerican line and working dogs from Germany and Finland are suffering from DCM. and die like flies.
DeleteYou want facts? Here they are.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.tierkardiologie.lmu.de/downloads/studien/Prevalence%20of%20Dilated%20Cardiomyopathy%20in%20Doberman%20Pinschers%20in%20Various%20Age%20Groups%20JVIM%202010.pdf
1 bis < 2 Jahre
3,3 %
2 bis < 4 Jahre
9,9 %
4 bis < 6 Jahre
12,5 %
6 bis < 8 Jahre
43,6 %
≥ 8 Jahre
44,1 %
Gesamte Prävalenz (Vorkommen der Krankheit, wenn alle Altersgruppen zusammengenommen wurden und jeder Hund nur 1 mal gezählt wurde):
58,7 % = prevalence of all groups of age accumulated.
Food, living circumstances...stupid excuses of breeders who don't want to change their kind of breeding.
There is no difference between Finland, German or Romania, in all Euope, you find the same dogs in 80 % of the pedigrees.
There is no difference between Finland, German or Romania, in all Euope, you find the same dogs in 80 % of the pedigrees.
DeleteNot according to some Romanians..
Dobermann garbage and dogs with DCM procentazi largest line of work are from Germany and Finland. this is reality.
DeleteAnd reality is you an idiot who nobody cares to listen to. Really, go get a life.
ReplyDeleteDobermann garbage and dogs with DCM procentazi largest line of work are from Germany and Finland. this is reality.
DeleteThat's a german study, mr. who wants numbers. I have Finland's studies also., But for somebody who is asking so arrogant the numbers (give me numbers, you are saying bullshit, giive me numbers) I WASN'T DISTURBING MYSELF TO TAKE PAPERS AND GIVE you numbers. Live in your world created by you and other breeders or people which give a shit for dobermanns, just the money got for puppies is important for them or vanity of winning with a dog which after he wins dies at 4 years of age. Hope that are very few like you ,otherwise dobermann is condamned forever
ReplyDeleteYeah, right. Now give me the names and the chip numbers of the dogs that have been used in that "study".
DeleteAnd the shoe numbers of doctors which made this study.
ReplyDeleteRight. However, it would be nice to know the exact sample (number of dogs) upon which this study was conducted.
DeleteWhy don't you read the study mindful?
ReplyDeleteThe study population consisted of 412 (54.9% female, 45.1% male) client-owned Doberman Pinschers that were prospectively selected according to inclusion and exclusion criteria from a longitudinal cohort study starting in 2004.
At the time of data analysis, 1014 examinations of Doberman Pinschers were available in the database. Seven hundred and seventy-five examinations from these 412 Doberman Pinschers met the selection criteria and were included. Excluded were dogs with other cardiac diseases (n 5 70), dogs with only 1 examination, no follow-up, and 50–100 VPCs/24 hours (n 5 47), and dogs with equivocal echocardiographic examinations between the normal and abnormal cut-off values without follow-up (n 5 46) and dogs with systemic diseases (n 5 76). Seven hundred and seventy-five examinations from these 412 Doberman Pinschers met the selection criteria and were included.
Dogs were from Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, and some eastern European countries. Each dog was assessed by a
5-minute ECG, 24-hour ECG (Holter) examination, and echocardiography at each examination.
The dogs were assigned to different age groups: age group 1 (1 to o2 years), age group 2 (2 to o4
years), age group 3 (4 too6 years), age group 4 (6 too8 years), and age group 5 (48 years). Each dog was counted only once in each age
group, even when the dog was examined several times. The last examination in the respective age group was used for analysis.
Why are you so aggressive?
DeleteBullshit!
DeleteAre we talking about backyard breeding here?
...because reputable breeders do have better things to do than to join futile quest such is Finnish research scientific wonder I think.
Anyway, the guy who started this viral DCM shit bought his dog (who allegedly died of DCM) for show(ing) off purposes...as it i s the case wtih 99% of Dobermann people, and he bought it from well known breeder. Otherwise, he would have taken the dog from shelter or the street...and now, he is projecting his frustration through a few bored to death "desperate housewives" wannabe geneticist and adjoined hubbies.
The fact is, people like you are destroying already limited population of Dobermanns through your rather Nazistic totalitarian "its my way or highway" actions. Also once again, people like you are bringing bad image to the breed that is already put in so many vicious contexts and that is not right.
P.S.
I think it's fair to say that "some eastern European countries" are much more relevant than at least 3 out of 4 countries that you've mentioned. Your cockiness is not appreciated.
Florin we are all confirmed your IQ is that of a sausage. Nobody wants your comments here, and everyone has heard your same nonsense over and over. Please go back to your work of polishing your neighbors cars.
ReplyDeleteDobermann garbage and dogs with DCM procentazi largest line of work are from Germany and Finland. this is reality.
Deleteknow will upset adevaru. and hidden behind the screen. are all flying dragons. in fact you are a nameless mice. make me laugh
DeleteYou are perfectly right. These statistics are particularly led only to scare and run intro ruin Dobermann breed.
ReplyDeleteThe ruin of the dobermann aren't those, who are voting for a breeding strategie of the clubs. The ruin of the breed are those, who are breeding dogs and selling dogs as a business:
ReplyDeleteThe ruin of the dobermann are the clubs who deny health exams before breeding, like health test on heart.
The ruin of the breed are those, who breed studs hundreds of times, without a view in the future because of show results.
The ruin of the breed are those, who don't inform other breeders and the public about the real cause of death such matadores in a honest way.
The ruin of the breed are those, who breed too big and to heavy dogs, like pigs.
The ruin of our dogs a those people, who don't care on the health of the ancestors of their breedings, who don't care on the thousands of people and families, who will loose their dogs by sudden death.
"The ruin of the breed are those, who are breeding dogs and selling dogs as a business"
Delete- Breeding dogs is a matter of passion before anything else. Yeah, right some business, especially when the costs are equaling or even being higher than the benefit. You should know that dog sport is not exactly cheap and some return must occur. Breeders are necessity and not all are bad. Same goes for owners. You judge this too easy.
"The ruin of the dobermann are the clubs who deny health exams before breeding, like health test on heart. "
- Bullshit! And strongly reminds of Gattaca Nazi-style faith decisions about who is going to live and who is not going to exit. It is impossible to predict such things with any living creature.
"The ruin of the breed are those, who breed studs hundreds of times, without a view in the future because of show results."
- partially true, but since you are either deprived or not interested you should know that hardly anyone died from sex. It is actually good! ;)
"The ruin of the breed are those, who don't inform other breeders and the public about the real cause of death such matadores in a honest way."
- are they obliged by law to do such thing? People do not report their selves for much greater misdeeds let alone the cause of death of their dogs.
"The ruin of the breed are those, who breed too big and to heavy dogs, like pigs."
- Another incorrect Nazi-style statement weight comes from eating habits and hardly from genetics. Would you prevent overweight people to have babies too?
"The ruin of our dogs a those people, who don't care on the health of the ancestors of their breedings, who don't care on the thousands of people and families, who will loose their dogs by sudden death."
- oh, I see..."by sudden death", so what you are looking for is to say is slow and agonizing. Which way would you pick: sudden and swift or slow and painful?
You and others should understand this: NO dog breed is 100% healthy. Some has DCM, other has defness, or HD, or epilepsy...but let me name the other ways dog can die and their come in tons:
- ticks
- torsion
- tumors
- car related accidents
- fire
- malicious neighbor
- liver (bad nutrition = cheap food)
- kidney failure
- heart worms
- stroke
- malnutrition
- branded food (they don't care about your dog really) and you;d be surprised how much kills per annum famous food manufacturers produce...and how do you pick yours? Based on rumors too or are you being seduced by a package...or perhaps by price?
- lack of physical (and mental) activity (do you spend at least 2 hours of your day devoted to this?)
-...and the list goes on
Yes...
ReplyDeleteAnd sadly
The ruin of the breed are those who are in the leadership but play politics instead.
Correct.
ReplyDeleteSomebody speaks here of Gino having lived long life, and so he was safe dog to breed. But why I cannot find any evidence anywhere when Gino died, how long he lived and how he died? Why is this big secret? Why people say they see different male dog in owner house, when supposed to be old Gino?
ReplyDeleteMy concern now is Ale Alamos is the 'next' Gino today. His progeny is winning under those same judges, same like Gino before. How healthy is this dog? Why people keep breeding over and over same dogs, is Dobermann having no more genetic other than these same lines? Or because of pressure of shows and IDC judges and Boss who make/encourage this 'selection'? Dobermann breeding now is like fashion. But good that some people also are smart, not use dog like Athos. But I hope one day breeder have honesty to give truth on Gino.
GinoGomez.
ReplyDeleteIt is my feeling that GinoGomez was probably dead
long before it was announced.
......There are HUGE assumptions being made here, one is that we are all willing to completely abandon breed type and the tremendous quality produced by the lines of DCM affected dogs so that we can gain a few more years with our dogs. Whether it is PC or not, I am not willing to act rashly out of emotion and discard generations of quality simply because of the fear that my dogs may die at 6 – 10 of DCM. DCM or no, I am not willing to give up bloodlines which profoundly anchor Doberman Breed type so that some people can have “a guarantee” that their dog will live to be 14. NO THANK YOU!!!! http://www.equinoxkennels.com/Articles/DCM_peer_review.html
ReplyDelete