IDC 2012 ITALY
And the winner is........
Bravo Pezzano! You stepped in when the Germans were weak and confused, and you got your Ale Alamos progeny the big Cup!
Surely, after the fiasco judging of the Champion Class Males.. The German team were afraid of the crowd and losing face....
Never in the history of the IDC were there as much Boos and Whistles for a dog, as there was for the DV hope, Orson. Just look at the video below -
Of course, the judge was Mr President himself, not that he was seeing anything correctly. It was all arranged already.. Can anyone ever doubt that?
At least Mr Malbasa walked out with some pride intact. Jurgen was still expecting his big cup, and carried on as if nothing happened.
So what happens in the finals? Yet again the audience made their impact! Congratulations and Bravo, finally, something is being shown against pre-arranged script.. But, there was always a PLAN B for Pezzano. Smart guy stepped in time to salvage his pride, with Quickstep. He certainly knows how to manipulate the situation and take advantage of Wiblishauser's problem.
Poor old man Wibli wants to be popular and loved as before. What else can he do? He knows this year things are very different.People were looking at him in a different way, and also knowing of his past misdeeds and present problems. He was so obviously out of control at this show, like an ancient man clawing for any glory and fame left.
But his acting skills were quite good, holding the big cup as if he was deciding who to win..
But good for Wibli, he still has some DV puppets in the finals - Jurgen and of course, also Andrea. So, Orson is sacrificed and the King of Darkness dog wins.... by accident! How nice... and how once again the IDC Show is another joke.
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| Yes.... SERIOUSLY???? |
And sadly.. another Sieger with no working qualification. Thats right, being a working breed means nothing in thre IDC circus. Quickstep does not even have the very basic IPO 1 qualification..
And it was not any different for the females finals. The DV's dear Kyrana also got many Boos and Jeers, and poor Wiblishauser was turning red again. So what to do?
Pezzano to the rescue again! Give it his partner and buddy of course!
But we are very certain Dottore also has a sense of humour... just look at the Jugendsiegers...
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| Even the Dottore must bow to the Teutonics... |
Gandor is owned by the Bremen clan, which all entire family are on the DV Loyalitaetsliste
With so many other deserving dogs present in the class, even from Italy... this is what he 'judged'..
And remember we wondered which group will be screwed with this year? Last year it was the Serbians.. this year... unfortunately for them.. it was very obviously The Italians.. and by their own kind too! Well, mostly by the DogFather.. since Coppo was not very effective in any way.
It seems for Dottore, the AIAD selections and winners are not good enough, but of course, there is much more to this story. The DogFather must prove himself before Mr President goes away forever..
It was also very suggestive how Dottore was likely influencing the judging of others, notably Mr Bulo and even Coppo. In fact, Bulo's only noticeable actions, besides judging without any shame according to his masters wishes - was to be on the receiving end of a disgraceful incident.
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| Courage test - exactly what's missing on IDC!!! |
But according to Dottore, as taken from this interview at www.ladige.it
" Pierluigi Pezzano, president of the Italian Dobermann Breeders, explained the evaluation criteria, - The character is the first thing that the judge observes, touching and caressing the Dobermann must be clear its sociability and openness." Words colliding with a stereotype unfounded: the aggressive nature of this breed. "
OH REALLY? Can you please explain this incident, and also the Prisconte dog which put 3 people in hospital, and even Quickstep's nervousness in the finals? Everyone also saw Open Class Finalist POR Urano snapping in the ring and almost creating same accident as his brother. "Character Observation"??
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| You are all in my fingers... |
But... that is the IDC Working Championships.. this is the IDC Conformation Show.. so, should not such a bitch really deliver on that beauty too? Considering the Seiger was selected [ accidentally ] for his looks and not for his ability to work [ non -existant, no IPO 1 even! ] So, we assume working ability means nothing to these judges... correct?
But the problem is she scored SG for her ZTP - Paradise's Results - conformation.
And the judge was a German fellow called Rudi Killmaier, who represents the DV.
So, the IDC Siegerin is a female who did not score 'V' for her conformation at the ZTP, judged under the DV judge.. but won her IDC class [ working of course] under Italian judge Dottore
So, who is right? Rudi of the DV or Pezzano of the AIAD?
And to be given Siegerin title... among the other finalists... by the bunch of judges in the Honor ring.. does this mean.. the ZTP SCORE COUNTS FOR NOTHING?
Wiblishauser ignores or has no idea of his own DV Judge's rating for this female at her ZTP?
So, whats the point of having the ZTP? ... Think about this....... Or Dottore has given the DV a nice big finger?
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| now please move near the cup as directed.... |
And what of the other judges?
Merete, once again you were given the scraps of the show and are you satisfied being a token? You probably judged the most fairly, but it was obvious there was little respect or camaraderie for you amongst the other thiefs. Our Danes expected much more, but no surprises there too..
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| How nice... a Klingbach puppy |
And of course, our good friend Mr Warden was also invited to show his face in the ring, being the perfect tool for Becht and President Hans. Not much to say of this warden and non-person, the results of the Black Females Open Class speaks for itself-
Exc1, CAC - Kyrana von Bavaria (Hilo von Nemesis - Jamaica von Nemesis)
Exc2 - Ophelia von Nemesis (Fedor del Nasi - Helena von Nemesis)
Exc3 - Ophira von Nemesis (Fedor del Nasi - Helena von Nemesis)
Exc4 - Pride of Russia Snow Queen (Fedor del Nasi - Sharon iz Zoosfery)
mmm mmm mmm Need anyone say anymore?
Yes, we can! Mr Warden Daube also judged the Brown Females Youth Class.. and the Winner is....
Vg.1, IDC YOUTH WINNER 2012 - MOCCHA VON BAVARIA
Surprise Surprise!!! But then again have a look at her breeding -
CH ALE' ALAMOS DEL CITONE x IRILAND OLIMPIA
And did you know there was only 2 puppies from this combination, one black and one brown female.How wonderful for the breeder to have one become Jugendsiegerin..not that anyone had ever heard of her before. And she was whelped on 10 December 2011 [ Bavaria M Litter ] which makes her probably the Youngest dog in the class..9 months and 5 days old!
Of course, we do hope she was actually born on that date.. or was IDC dates pushed ahead for her?
And just like Kyrana last year, Mocca was virtually unknown and the only result she ever had before [ or possibly the only other show entered ] was at AIAD -
AIAD Baby class: 2 MP Mocca Von Bavaria
And this becomes your Youth IDC Winner for the year...
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| I am a good obedient German Boy |
Thanks Daube to make everything so plain and obvious... You are still under influence of your master and Becht too..
Speaking of Mr Becht.. We wonder how he is recuperating from getting what he deserved. For any fight, there are always two hands clapping. And for an experienced and friendly handler to do what he did to Thomas, we are positive it was provoked. But, is it fair for Becht to ban and disqualify his opponent from all IDC shows, and events, on the spot? Should not there be some sort of commission to establish the facts before judgment? If either party is at fault, let the President punish them. Does this not remind us how Thomas did the same to Natalia last year? Looks like Becht is getting out of control for our President..
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| Thor vs Becht |
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And so, this year's IDC Circus has come to pass. Yes, there was no Redtenbacher in the ring judging.. but as usual, the shameless parading of himself and his whelp Nikki with their camera, and arrogance. From the videos you can clearly see Redtenbacher snapping off the cups from winners' hands
and placing them where HE thought was suitable to make pictures!
And there was also Becht on the sidelines, but giving unwanted influence on the selections and placings.
And Poor old Wibli frail and ignored, and shamed already by the exposes of his past.
Coppo and Merete playing their puppet roles... And of course, the DogFather of IDC 2012, Dottore - the circus maestro eccellente..the ultimate winner...
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| Its Ale on our minds.... |
But amid the same old nonsense and charades.. there was one outstanding result. The audience has grown more balls and confidence now, and this is the hope for the future. Congratulations for playing a part in the final selections.The vanity of Wiblishauser and the cunning of Pezzano certainly combined with the audience reactions to produce this year's winners.
Have your say on this year's IDC show/circus/Ale-Pezz Parade..
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| Let the Games Begin! |
WOW! I WANNA BE PEZZANO WHEN I GROW UP!
ReplyDeleteJust a few things on the organization of the show:
ReplyDelete- parking lot was 300m downhill, and that was steep one! Not a problem for walkers, but a lot of a problem if you have more dogs and crates to carry.
- no one but people who mated to Alamos were allowed to park on upper levels and that is mid level for one mating and top level (next to the rings) for the ones with more matings! Such discrimination was beyond any comprehension;
- rings were, at least to say - not good. The surface was bumpy full of holes and with some sort of irrigation channels and that was in every single ring; Grass was not nice and smooth;
- food was disaster especially some dry sandwiches with "a bread from yesterday", cost - 3eur!
- water was not avail anywhere near the rings;
- fence around rings looked like something stolen from local peasants. I am not sure what was that for. Some grass dryers or something.
I love this column :)
ReplyDeleteWay to go insider , you nailed it!! How horrible this year Sieger selection was. Its amazing how a average dog becomes a Sieger ??? Why people still attend this side act.
ReplyDeleteA pity vote for a Sieger, how very comforting.
Paradise King of Darkness
ReplyDeleteIDC Siegering 2012 has ZTP SG1A
JUST HOW IDIOTIC IS THIS????!!!!!!!
THEY GAVE IDC WIN TO THE FEMALE WITH Sehr Gut (Very Good) for the looks on her ZTP!!!????
Too much people, Mr P is full of satisfaction, and also money!
ReplyDeleteExcellent column!
ReplyDeleteFunny as Hell, all IDC.
OK, it was deserved for Eureka del Nasi and, finally Kaspij, but Quickstep - LOL... he was winner by accident. For this year, I think Maxim di Altobello deserved this title, and all the audience showed it. Quickstep is nice, but nothing else,acting pretty unstable, he is also young, with a few progeny. So , I expect that now all oportunistic "breeders" will run to Alamos, and even QSKOD.
After winning the loyalty-cup by the Bremer-Clan, it was a must that one of his dogs win a IDC-cup.
ReplyDeleteWe all got used to this circus called IDC every year.All the sensible people i know go there to watch the dogs and decide themselves who is good or bad..not what Pezzano decides to gie first place.
ReplyDeleteHow stupid are the people to spent time and money for this circus when it is obvious that the winners being certain.
ReplyDeleteWould you pay for a lottery if you would know that you will never win, but the lottery owner and his friends?
Much better to create a international Dobermann-meeting with music, fun, some training with great trainers, breed and health information and without conformation show. Or if wanted, a conformation show judged by the public.
This would be more fun and less frustration. A relaxed get together of dobermannfriends.
Don't forget that the last year's Siegerin was also progeny of Del Pezzano and strangely enough also from CAYA mother:
ReplyDeleteWay out of West Blazing Expression
(Zylan Zais Del Citone x Savannah Come
As You Are)
"Del Pezzano"? Mwahahaha! More like Del Boy to me!
ReplyDeleteOnly fools and horses
Seems that Urano's behavioral pattern hasn't changed since last year's IDC. He was out of control then, and is out of control now.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting that all three males from that litter: Urano, Ursus and Urwan have problematic characters. Meaning thin nerves under pressure and fearful snaps.
Check out this video from Open class finals
IDC2012 Open Class Finals
At 56th second of video Judge Bulo puts himself into position to be attacked again, and more so by the brother of very same dog that bit his jacket earlier at the placement. Lucky for him, this one picked to escape the invasion of his space by Bulo's hand.
The handler of Urano did the wrong thing by patting dog's fore chest, as it is usually done within bitework practice and just before launching the attack! Such action is elevating dog's drive in the non controlled and highly pressurized environment and that's wrong!
Judge Bulo was careless to make hand action towards the dog's head as he could have been severely punished for that. More so, as a specialized breed judge he should have known better, because none of these 3 dogs have official DV breeding test, aka ZTP, in which case approaching them with greater caution is more than recommended.
Ok falks, seems you don't know all important things about the judges. We had Dogfather, and Dogfighter there, but unfortunately, second one was in the wrong fighting ring.
ReplyDeleteIn fight between mr Bulo and our new Prisconte star, I'll bet on Prisconte dog.
Next del Nasi mating:
ReplyDeleteALE ALAMOS DEL CITONE X EUREKA DEL NASI :))
Pezzano supervisor.
I know for sure that nearly all progeny of Urbano del Diamanté Nero have aggressive behavioral pattern. They have a lot of problems with their character,even some bitches.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of organizing an international dobermann meeting without judging - just for fun, meeting all dobermann lovers of the world, just discussing, talking and showing the dogs to each others - this would be really great!!
ReplyDeleteAnd boycott to all IDCs .... where all decisions are arranged from the very beginning ...
This IDC is really ridiculous - two of the winners have ZTP SG 1 A - and are IDC-winners now! This is more than ridiculous ...
IDC should be the annual breed overview, not a win-the-cup slaughterhouse.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the problem with winner having Sg in ZTP? I mean the judges judge what they see at the moment not what the dog will be in the future or not what the dog was in the past. Some do their ZTP at very young age and they still fill up after their test. You as a dobermann people should know this!
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that successful ZTP is non-repeatable test and it does mark the dog's characteristics forever, as does rather its flattering IDC title. IDC should be best of the best, not best of the averages.
ReplyDeleteAnonymus wroted "AnonymousSeptember 20, 2012 9:12 PM
ReplyDeleteI know for sure that nearly all progeny of Urbano del Diamanté Nero have aggressive behavioral pattern. They have a lot of problems with their character,even some bitches. "
Bla bla bla ! Yes they have agresive behavior with tones of Forell and Franckenhorst .
I have Urbano pupies and are very stable on character . It is true that they can kill with smile on their lips, but they are STRONG and STABLE.
W.A.
precisation ....agresive behavior with tones of Forell and Franckenhorsts on maternal side ....
ReplyDeletelearn some minimal genetic please!
If there was not for Italian efforts Dobermann of today would be meek pretty face. Stop bullshiting about Urbano! It's the Russians! They spoiled the breed! OK, there is much to be said about weak minded owners who want power-dog and in reality can't handle such beast.
ReplyDeleteCome to maternal side this year's Sieger should prove what's been known for some time now - CAYA dogs were always infamous for their soft characters. And, when they're mixed with even slightly harder dogs shit happens. You people should know - the character of the dog is largely shaped by the behavior learned from the mother at the earliest age - in the litterbox!!!
ReplyDeleteRegardind Quickstep King of Darkness ..maybe he is not so spectaculouse than others , but he have more stable genetic than many other males . His starting maternal line and the outcross on a double 2-3 Urbano presance make his genetic more secure than many other gentical bombs.
ReplyDeleteI don't know who get decision to make him winner , probable mr Pezano , but this gentic based on Citone and Diamante Nero is the best possible from showlines . The real gentical desaster was not maded by that lines ; these two lines great ancestors are in battle with death by log time.
Is easy to discuss or criticise ,I saw NO real alternative . Here in cage of the lions and arena of death , that two bloodlines starting ancestors , Furstenfeld , D'aiciao and Jack and Faun Weinberge are in battle with death by long time.
This is the genetical truth.
W.A.
Darling, it is not only about general genetics it is about gene-strain and each gene-strain is railway of its own and each puppy from the litter has it's own. Otherwise, people would not be spending that much money on the particular male but would go to mate for his less known/successful siblings and for far less. Otherwise, Maria Einstein would be as genius as her brother was.
ReplyDeleteThing with Quickstep is that this particular dog is not yet proven in anything. Not work, not progeny, not even proper show portfolio if you like. Think about it. Insider is right: that was not about him, that was about his cash-cow father.
Oh, and one more thing: see GSDs, no dog can be VA without progeny group.
"You people should know - the character of the dog is largely shaped by the behavior learned from the mother at the earliest age"
ReplyDelete-----------
ohh yess! and character is maded by profesional trainer which train the ztp 6 months .
I will die by laugh !
That shit with the trainer is tolerated and encouraged by DV judges, otherwise 1 out of 100 would really earn that ZTP paper. NO trainer can make the character. ZTP has mutated into the sheer travesty.
ReplyDeleteOh, and one more thing: see GSDs, no dog can be VA without progeny group.
ReplyDelete------------
The progeny group "reproductore" is Urbano -the last modern Furstenfeld.
Regarding that actual sieger don't proved anything yet, maybe will prove(have some genetical chances) maybe no but FOR SURE, he is not so gentical dangerouse as many others studs , if they can be elected siegers !
And I know some genetic calculations when I said that .
A grandson of Urbano,and largely used as a good stud, tried to rip the throat of a 10-year old little girl running by to her parents at CACIB show. It was a narrow escape and the frightened babe was reassured he wanted to kiss her.
ReplyDeleteAnonymousSeptember 20, 2012 11:52 PM
ReplyDeleteThat shit with the trainer is tolerated and encouraged by DV judges, otherwise 1 out of 100 would really earn that ZTP paper. NO trainer can make the character. ZTP has mutated into the sheer travesty.
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that is true. The oficial request to participate to ZTP in Germany is to have a TRAINED DOG and minimal BH . Then ..the ztp is transformed in a test to see how the trained did his job and not to evaluate THE NATIVE CHARACTER of dobermann . In this mode ZTP is transformed in a INDUSTRY of moneys for profesipnbal trainers which pass shit character dogs over ZTP !
Time will tell...
ReplyDeleteAnonymousSeptember 20, 2012 11:57 PM
ReplyDeleteA grandson of Urbano,and largely used as a good stud, tried to rip the throat of a 10-year old little girl running by to her parents at CACIB show. It was a narrow escape and the frightened babe was reassured he wanted to kiss her.
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A Urbano grandson and HOW MANY TONES OF FORELL AND FRANKENHORSTS ? Aaaaa ? tell the entire pedigree before to talk bulshit !
Excuse me! But that was parents' mistake! 10yo old girl has no business on the dog show!
ReplyDeleteRunning anything is a prey to a proper dog.
ReplyDeleteShe was passing by!!!!! And he snapped at her immediately! At a child! His owner and breeder could hardly get control of him.
ReplyDeleteUrbano has nothing to do with this charade IDC. It was all about Del Pezzone and his own vanity pocket.
ReplyDeletethis story with that girl is a diversion without genetical support...
ReplyDeleteI don't know the result of Urbano with other females, I have some doubts about actual character and genetic of showlines but FOR SURE I can say, with right females which have RIGHT genetical keys , the resulted character is great , maybe not as my past dogs ...but I like and fill my soul very well .
I think that the subject and race problem is NOT Urbano, he have almost 9-10 years and mate females in 30 seconds . This action to turn the discussion against this bloodline have NO DIGNITY and NO REAL GENETICAL SUPPORT and HIDE THE REAL SOURCES OF PROBLEMS !
I will sign with German name :
WOM WEIMBERGE AVATAR
To me, the winner of the day was that Prisconte dog who took out several people in seconds. Thata boy! That's the real Dobermann!!!
ReplyDeleteSorry,but his two sons demonstrated inadequate behavior... I wonder who paid for the torn jacket...? And really did the judges take it with it-s-ok smile???
ReplyDelete@Boy from Brazil
ReplyDeleteTRUE!
@Boy from Brazil:
ReplyDeleteYeah, right. So a dog who snaps under pressure and totally freaks out attacking indiscriminately should be some kind of ideal?? That's the kind of thinking that makes the breed go to hell!
The comments on Urbano here is just out of jealousy and ignorance. Everyone knows that majority of Urbano progeny are super dogs, as are the grand children. And everyone also know that Pride of Russia has common problems of character, aggression, wrong conformation and poor training. Yet they can win is because of the kennel owners wealth, political and Mafia connections and having judges in their pockets, like Becht. This is common knowledge and truth.
ReplyDeleteThat U litter is disaster, and yet they can be considered for finals. Pezzano and Wiblishauser are playing us for fools.
We have a Pride of Russia dog. He lives with another adult male and 2 little children. We have never had any problem with his behaviour.
ReplyDeleteStop telling lies about Pride of Russia dogs!
So we have to take you and your anonymous Pride of Russia dog as the reference point for their breeding?
ReplyDeletelol, what kind of males live together in harmony?
ReplyDeleteGay kind, dude :)
ReplyDelete[URL=http://www.radikal.ru][IMG]http://s48.radikal.ru/i121/1209/20/0eff71771f61.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
ReplyDelete[URL=http://www.radikal.ru][IMG]http://s017.radikal.ru/i435/1209/1d/9a9c326dcb71.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/177985_4187148160825_1204445000_o.jpg
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/333338_4187173281453_1986529_o.jpg
Highly irresponsible, to put such a small boy between two adult males. You never know.
ReplyDeleteWhy Mr Malbasa bowed to Dr Pezzano on IDC?
ReplyDeleteAnonymousSeptember 21, 2012 10:35 AM
ReplyDeleteHighly irresponsible, to put such a small boy between two adult males. You never know.
I surely agree. Something can happen in a fraction of a second.
"Everyone knows that majority of Urbano progeny are super dogs, as are the grand children." - just one question - were you present at IDC, when his progeny group was showed??? "And everyone also know that Pride of Russia has common problems of character, aggression, wrong conformation and poor training." - no, everyone does not know!:) Maybe you could be more specific? I am not an owner of Pride of Russia Dog, but we meet PoR often with various Dogs in various shows for the years and I have never seen any problems created by these Dogs, except of course for the males, who are sons of the Male mentioned above.
ReplyDeleteInteresting we got the POR Fan Club coming out here.. Maybe they would like to keep Urwan and his litter mates in their won home with their kids, instead of bashing other renowned dogs.
ReplyDeleteInsider has once again done a great job here. Pezzano has really outdone himself this time.I bet the Germans and even most Italians are going for his frog neck now!
Oh No! So Pathos and Ale are going to create a big trouble!!! Oh No!!! What will we all do now? ...
ReplyDeleteGet real you idiots. Why not say something positive and intelligent [ if you have the brains ] instead of stupidly playing into Pezzano and POR's hands
Here comes intelligent one: Does anyone know anything about this year's black male Sieger? Character? Confirmations? Working abilities?
ReplyDeleteSome info could be found on the internet, but nothing special. The usual stuff. Anyone?
This is the second time in a row that the wining dog has no IPO. For those of you that don't keep the record previous one was the infamous Dobergaarden Forever Athos.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to see the video of Quickstep's IPO trial, in integral version of course.
Am I the only one to have this impression that Insider actually ADMIRES Pezzano?
ReplyDeleteI know for sure that there will be zylan of Citone x eureka the noses.
ReplyDeleteidc strange that before he went to the home of simon Pezzano to settle some business ....
I do win idc you and I take for eureka zylan
sucks!
eureka where winning on merit (is beautiful)
not for blackmail
the offspring of Uranus is terrible.
ReplyDeletesisters wrong ZTP in russia
and urbanita in Italy at stake aggressive and scared
and all idiots who use Urano!
yes, we all know that Simon went to the home of Pezzano to cry, and he will use one of his dogs, surely Zylan Zais or Alamo.
ReplyDeleteYes, Eureka deserved to win. Bu this winning raised a big question : why she won ? Because nowadays dogs which deserve to win, doesn't and dogs which are politically helped are winning. Simon was hunted starting from last year like a rabbit by Pezzano. He was put to spend a lot of money making " genetic tests" in Italy ( ?!!). What genetic tests ?! Why in Italy ? Is a joke ! Who will pay the great ammount which is to be paid for a genetical comparison ? Nobody, what Simon paid doesn't cover the costs and tests will never be done. It was just a matter of frightening made by Pezzano. My question is how much costed Simon this IDC title in reality , not only money but everything else ? And when I am saying this I am not thinking that Eureka didn't deserve to win, so do not think a second that I put under question her IDC title , but the costs for Simon to have this title what was or what will be ?!
ReplyDeleteWhat are you all talking about??!! I have a Pride of Russia - Saphron - and he is a very lovely, brave and nice dog - no problems in handling him at all!! He has ZTP V 1 A, he has IPO 1, and he is very friendly to all dogs and humans!!
ReplyDeleteIt is bullshit to say that all PoR-dogs have got problems with their character - Nooooo!!!!
I am very content with my beautiful Saphron who has got excellent babies, and I would buy my next dog from PoR again!!!
Let us stop this silly arguments over what dogs and kennels are aggressive, etc. What is far more important what has just happened in Italy. It is really a disgrace, and they make us look like silly idiots for going to the show. Pezzano was really the big mafia of this show, and i think there is going to be bigger rivalry soon with Becht, over who takes over IDC. Clearly he was the one who decided everything in this show.
ReplyDeleteand what do you want ?
ReplyDeleteProbable you prefer German decision and politic :-)
And yes, the discussion about agresivity have no sense today , the improper character genes are deep wroted on dobermanns genetic . From time in time that genes comed at surface !
I think that responsable brains don't understood yet that their ill dominance maded with rings and their selection , will return against them after they kill almost all healtly lines with real character .
Yes correct.
ReplyDeleteThe IDC winner selections are slowly killing the breed and its character, and of course, health also.
Seems they dont really care anymore for the breed, as long they get their won glory, mating money and free meals, travel, hotels and sex.
Cornelia, we were talking abaout POR U litter! Read better next time, before you start to argue!
ReplyDeleteHow can you explain that Urbano and other females pupies are stable and have super character ? Urbano is the same then.. what is different ?
ReplyDeleteCapisci ?
Please, Urbano is the one of the best producers, so don't be envious. He gives good progeny and even better in second generaton /grandsons and granddoughters/. He is great dog.
ReplyDeletePOR U litter - malbeheviour is not from Urbano, but, unafortunatelly, it is obvious that 3 U brothers have character problems. I was watching Urano few times on the showes, he always acts the same, nervous, clutching around,never stand still, and we remember last IDC when he tried to bite handler.
Hey you people, please be more serious before accussing one or the other of judges. Of course they all are quilty for the political and corrupt decisions, but all this would not have been possible without our full contribution. So, if there exists any dobermann lover in this world, please wake up in the twelfth hour, and STOP going to such tragic circus as IDC or some other show like it.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the idc winners, they are good for breeding, just for STUPID and HYPOCITE people who care only about money.
Look at all famous studs, Fedor, Pathos, Urbano, Nike...all of them are or was MASCULINE! New sieger is nice, but not masculine, so i doubt he will be a good producer!
ReplyDeleteCOME TO SIEGERS, WHY IS QUICKSTEP'S ZTP VIDEO HEAVILY EDITED AND COVERED WITH STATIC PHOTOS?
ReplyDeleteQuckstep King of Darkness ZTP trial - edited video
Most probably because something should be hidden from public eye :)
ReplyDeleteI agree with post signed W.A. 20/9/12. Not only has Quickstep a safe(ish)bloodline he has no dramatic faults except perhaps for me the loose skin on his lips which spoils an otherwise nice head.
ReplyDeleteI think Quickstep was a good choice - if only from a health point of view
Seen that dog on several shows so unlike you, photo-judges I will allow myself a freedom of criticism. Hope neither the owner nor the breeder of Quicksep will hold it against me.
ReplyDeleteThe dog never ever made a proper step in the circle run. It was usually prancing und Passgang. Let alone lack of self confidence demonstrated by his now infamous back steps. Seems he doesn't deal with show pressure too well. That tells a lot about his nerve steadiness.
Other anatomical flaws: not so strong head as it seems at the first sight, short upper arm therefore not so good upper arm to shoulder relation, affecting the neck position and somewhat longer coat. Withers could be less pronounced and then the topline would be better. But that comes from CAYA's retro gene anyway.
Otherwise not a bad dog really, it is just he's too shy to be the ultimate sieger type.
The latest A -litter of POR is very aggressive (Urbano is the Sire), they can't pass ZTP, the females are aggressive also.
ReplyDeleteMixing timid females with truly dominant males could produce scared biting idiots. Mixing two moderate temperaments and questionable characters produces dogs with popular ring behavior. As with head type success with character doesn't come overnight! It takes several generations of careful selection within the kennel to make it right and that's why it is dangerous to promote instant breeders on shows such is IDC.
ReplyDeleteI saw the Quickstep ZTP video , is OK. It is not spectacular but OK.
ReplyDeleteAs I said before , he is not spectacular but a good dog and do not reprsent a big genetical danger comparative with many other bombs . With a correct genetic female he can born good dogs.
We no need stectacular. We need stability .
"We no need stectacular. We need stability."
ReplyDeleteJudges didn't sleep nights before the show thinking of that stability and what to do about it.
...so they came up with QUICK solution
ReplyDeleteThere you have right, show judges don't have much care about genetic and stability ... they promoted their trend lines ;
ReplyDeleteGermans promote Frankenhorst and Forell because they represent that lines political continuity .
Italians promoted their historical lines as Villa Catselli till today Citone based on Quinn Nobili Nati from Chenj and Kira del Caimano - breeded in past by Piero Caliandro, both of them started from D'aciaio bloodlie.
I know that this D;aciaio line is unknow for majority of you , but they was great on character and I owned and breeded in past this line :-)
Because Pezzano is smart , he always choice the best for his bloodline and he know as nobody else all the problems and now he understood that unique way which remained is to use Diamante Nero -unique show-stud capable to offer Furstenfeld refresh. Anything else mean death , skeleton problems , cancer or idiot character and he know that.
Regarding working-lines I sad how last last true rare working lines , because they have NO MINIMAL KNOWLEDGES by what is hided beside of show-lines, mixed their females with very dangerous show genetic ...
The working lines are in big trouble too , because limited gene-pool and because penetration of show lines (majority are mixed today) they start to have same problems especial cancer and dcm (skeleton not yet because working lines still have nonmolosoidal constitution).
Then,
nobody can't stop actual breeding way based on interests and shows .But... we can use inertia to push things in right direction toward freedom in breeding , respect between breeders, entire genepool protection , unification between working and showlines ...
..but unification between working and show-lines don't mean what majority working breeders start to do in last years when they mixed reaally original and rare working lines with mediocre and dangerouse showstuds !
ReplyDeleteWorking lines do not mean same Forell genetic in working version !
I search long time beside working lines , almost nothing remained original because they used shiowlines OR same Frankenhorst and Forell in working version !
Quickstep's video has been cut when dog showed problems such as measuring - he was helped to stand on platform and scary-agressive during staying alone on leash!
ReplyDeleteTruth is, those 'judges' choose more for profitability, favors and especially for Pezzano - more matings for Ale and other Citones. Gaia will share good profit with Dottore.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what Quick did on measuring platform but in video he is stable during stand alone on leash and don't show excesive nervosity when judge approach by him..
ReplyDeleteFor those of you that know something about working, you can see on the video how low drives this dog has. On short attack he is totally out of focus and even accidental bypasser in the background is enough to distract his attention and he is leash sensitive too. At the very beginning he is turning back looking for the support of his handler instead of pulling immediately and it's a pity because he surely trained this before.
ReplyDeleteHelper is virtually mimicking shakes where it should have been the other way around - dog should be shaking the sleeve, not the helper! Also, his bite was with less confidence and the moment handler touches him he lets go the sleeve. He was a bit better on long attack though.
diamente nero line is health?
ReplyDeletebut if they have problems of character, and it shows.
problems with teeth, testicles, back ... santini has done so many improprieties in the past that use one of his dogs is like winning the lottery
so you Diamante Nero haters would rather use show winning dogs like Athos, Hilo, Orson, etc... Well done!
ReplyDeleteQuickstep try to attack judge twice the exam on leash but it did not have the courage to do so by the end of the attack and that he wore on the podium for the measurement because it was scary and I was not able to jump there were a lot of people on this test and they see it.
ReplyDeleteJust look at videos of the males finals... Quickstep was always looking nervous, anxious and low confidence. Maxim and others were much more stronger character and nerves.
ReplyDeleteI cant wait to see how they will pass the IPO with Quickstep.
"santini has done so many improprieties in the past that use one of his dogs is like winning the lottery"
ReplyDeleteBullshit!
I doubt Pezzano himself, let alone other reputable breeders, would be even considering Diamante Nero in Citone pedigrees if these lies about Massimo were truth and he would know best because he is obviously the master of the game.
Someone here wants to say that there is a stud dog that doesn't pass faults and that my friends is hilarious. Every now and then some faults float up to surface regardless of male or female used in breeding but many good things come along too. There is no perfect dog nor the perfect breeding line. People claiming differently are either ignorants or plain idiots!
Stop attacking Diamante Nero and Urbano in particular! He might not be perfect allrounder stud for the first generation, but will surely prove himself right through the generations of dogs to come! He is no instant provider like Fedor was but then again his legacy will last longer.
'I cant wait to see how they will pass the IPO with Quickstep.' they will pass in post production as usual lol
ReplyDeleteUrbano rules!
ReplyDeleteYou finish to criticize and solve all Forell problems because this world is fully 90% by them and start to talk bulsit about Diamante dogs and accouse him about all your resulted problems ?!
ReplyDeleteThis world is really stupid !
I know first hand what it is like to be attacked by the prisconte dog JS. He brutally attacked me 6 months ago sending me to the hospitol, (there was no touching or aggrevation on my part) he grabbed my neck, bit the hell out of my arm, and breast. Ruined my bicep and tricep...he had already bit 3 people, before he attacked me...and he is then brought to the IDC knowing fair well what this dog was capable of... That is the biggest disgrace of 2012!! way to go prisconte
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry for such attack :( It shouldn't happened. But we all know what kind of man is Prisconte - ugly, little sponger of Dottore. Can you tell us name of the dog - to avoid it?
ReplyDeleteJUNIOR SIRIO DI PRISCONTE
ReplyDelete"Cornelia, we were talking about POR U litter! Read better next time, before you start to argue!"
ReplyDeleteI want to reply to the a.m. answer of "anonymous":
I read everything very carefully: a lot of people were talking about the progeny of Urbano - BUT, nevertheless there was mentioned that ALL progeny of PoR is very aggressive - and I do not like unqualified comments without knowledge!
Just wanted to mention this ... :)
Horrifying story! Who normal would take such a dog to shows?!
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteInteresting Pedigree of Junior Sirio si Prisconte!
*TESIRIO PRIMO DI PRISCONTE -
**PATHOS DELLE QUERCE NERE
***URBANO DEL DIAMANTE NERE
***NINETTE DELLA SINVESSA
**CAMILLA DI PRISCONTE
***RIEGOY NUNEZ DEL CITONE
***OXANA DI PRISCONTE
*FIFI DI PRISCONTE
**CH. QUILLAM QUASIM DEL CITONE
***CH. TIGR IZ SLAVNOI STAI
***CH. KATRINA KRYSTAL DEL CITONE
**CRUDELIA DI PRISCONTE
***AIGON DI PRISCONTE
***HIMI DI PRISCONTE
Hold on! Was it Kiro di Prisconte or Junior Sirio di Prisconte?
ReplyDeleteDon't you find it interesting that, by official results, Pride of Russia Urwan was NOT disqualified for attacking that judge?
ReplyDeleteAnd what is the genetical relation between Prisconte dogs and Urbano in colum 3 of pedigree ?
ReplyDeleteHow stupid is to accouse Urbano present 1 time afar in pedigree and don't see the real structure of that dogs !
Let see what said dobermannnl site :
Quillam Quasim del Citone 3.344%
Hertog Alpha v. Le Dobry 1.156%
Tequila Mali del Citone 0.694%
Prinz v. Norden Stamm 0.686%
Jivago v.h. Wantij 0.656%
Graaf Quirinus v. Neerlands Stam (NHSB 1550587) 0.646%
Vivre Vivien v. Franckenhorst 0.536%
Astor del Citone 0.413%
Ebo v.d. Groote Maat 0.253%
Nimrod Hilo v. Franckenhorst 0.244%
Arrow v. Harro's Berg 0.231%
Vivien Sawages 0.217%
And study there . Sound knowed ? For me yes.
http://www.dobermannpedigrees.nl/modules/pedigree/pedigree.php?pedid=160684
All of you multiplied in your breeding hundredth of times ancestors as Quirinus, Hertog Alpha, Guido, Arrow Harrowsberg , Olive Bamby Pride and many other from same family till they construct today almost entire genepool .
ReplyDeleteHow can ignore all of that and accouse Urbano?
After vanity and moneys , stupidity destroyed the dobermann race !
AnonymousSeptember 24, 2012 12:02 AM
ReplyDeleteHold on! Was it Kiro di Prisconte or Junior Sirio di Prisconte?
---------------
both have similar pedigree and genetic
JUNIOR SIRIO, they also refere to him as LEO. trust me, i know him very well. I know now what he is capable of... He brutallly attacked me too..
ReplyDeleteAfter 8 th generation genetic influence diminish so forget about Olive ets... they are far behind; they brought into Breed what they did and shaped the today's situation. We have to deal with it in best possible way. Since every Dobe today has the sam bckground, cause of such problematic beheivor must be find within 3-4-5 generations. Neither Pathos is not much of the dog (concerning tempermant), just good trained. With all respects, Urbano failed twice on the sleeve but saw how careful was Francesko with him and some kids approuching. It may mean notihing andd everything. Breeder knows the best his true nature and we shouldn't expect sincerety. For example, I know two more "human attackers" grandsons of Urbano! One atacked man without any provocation, was a puppy than, the other couldn't stand the"pressure" during the training and snapped, couldn't bite the helper since suddenly became mad but attacked owner who was saved by one of helpers! Now you tell me is this a coincidence?
ReplyDeleteThis is video of "great" Pathos - take a look what insecurity this dog shows when Wibli approches him (about 23-25 sec) - look at his tail - going down, and ears! This is the way how the Breed has been destructed :(
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOp5tOfauR4
I remember Pathos winning IDC Sieger title - he was scared, confused and very insecure during the finals, especially when people were clapping with hands; he wasn't looking self-confident at all. Also, there were stories about his ZTP, which he suddenly had at the moment of getting the IDC Sieger title.
ReplyDeleteAs for Junior Sirio, he is linebred to Quilam Quasim which was also well known for bad character. Most likely this bad character is deeply imprinted in Prisconte dogs...
AnonymousSeptember 24, 2012 8:46 AM
ReplyDeleteAfter 8 th generation genetic influence diminish so forget about Olive ets... they are far behind; they brought into Breed what they did and shaped the today's situation. We have to deal with it in best possible way. Since every Dobe today has the sam bckground, cause of such problematic beheivor must be find within 3-4-5 generations.
-----------
False ! Not when that dogs fill background pedigrees by hundredths of times . All the problems comed from afar dogs to the present .
-----------
ReplyDeleteFalse ! Not when that dogs fill background pedigrees by hundredths of times . All the problems comed from afar dogs to the present .
____________
You can believe in fairy-tales also, don't care but search after proper knowledge about genetics...Oh, yes, Pathos is as same as Olive.. or Bryan v Forelll... or better - Vello! (Hope you can read irony here)
C'n, be serious - bad character can be tracked within 4 generations, what you see in Pedigree. Leave those old dogs back, we cann't do anything now (or you can travel back in time?)
But we can spot and put the truth in public since many dogs are true sh.... sold as gold! Urbano produced excellent dogs, nobody doubts, but it is noticable that all dogs involved into those incidencts are his sons or grandsons... and don't foget Matrix di Casa Giardino, as same biter...
criticism of Urbano, are really ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteHe has made many matings , and unfortunately not always able to do miracles like Jesus Christ.
Urbano is really the only new genetics in the past 20 years, his children are in good health, the children with the ZTP V 1A are very numerous, everyone can see this.
In addition Santini, is the only Italian breeder with Citone (Gino), who managed to overcome the Korung with a son of Urbano, with morphology really excellent.
The rest is just a poor blah blah , jealousy, envy
aldo danna is really a bad person and a bad breeder, is many puppies just for money. But the most tragic thing is that it is supported by pezzano, it is not clear whose interests have a merchant of dogs and a president of a club that should protect the breed. I am very sorry for what happened to you and other innocent, is a shame.
ReplyDeleteYears ago a young judge told me that it is better to stay away and do not go at certain people, he was right!
@WA
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you stop molesting us with your fucking Forell and old lines fixation and get back to the Dobermamm-review forum were you're kept safe from others?
You are fucking troll!!! You keep ruining any thread anywhere on internet so shudd the fuck up and disappear!!!
Yah ....the character is tracked only 4 generations ...and these dogs inherited their bad character from the moon , from Furstenfeld and Urbano !
ReplyDeleteAnd who talk about destruction of dobermann breed !
----------------
AnonymousSeptember 24, 2012 10:41 AM
C'n, be serious - bad character can be tracked within 4 generations, what you see in Pedigree. Leave those old dogs back, we cann't do anything now (or you can travel back in time?)
Gino saved the character in recent generations. The fact that people can't handle such dogs is another story.
ReplyDeletePathos is overrated dog in any sense. He was also a fix winner because if I remember well he won from indermedia class which is funny, and that happened as part of Pezzagenda because he was in a hurry to use Urbano but not directly since he never liked the dog but surely liked his lineage background.
ReplyDeleteQUICKSTEP'S PRESENTATION ON THE-DOBERMANN SITE SAYS HE HAS IPO1 SO HOW COME THERE IS NO VIDEO OF THE EXAM AVAILABLE?
ReplyDeleteBecause, as it seems, his IPO 1 was bought...or if its not , why dont we wach even edited video again?
ReplyDeleteAthos owner had a balls, QStep owner dont!
So much bla bla . Why is there no video of quicksteps ipo...? Because maybe nobody was filming it ?! What stupid question . Where is the video of your last walk to the toilet ??
ReplyDeleteI'm in the toilet right now and what do you know - it is out of paper. Could you please hand me that paper and then we'll have both videos at the price of one :)
ReplyDeleteEXCUSE ME! But going to the toilet and doing IPO trial is not the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or is it?
ReplyDeleteIs it mandatory to publish a video of any trial or ZTP?
ReplyDeleteA first IPO trial is as boring as watching a fly on a pile of shit.
More interesting are working championships. Well, the level in the show-community seems to be so low that even something like this may be interesting. Discussing dogs, that step back when one comes with giant shining cup?
I say, good boy, guys whith giant shinig cups are supect. Do not bite, otherwise you will be suspect too, as well as your owner, your breeder and your ancestors.
It is not mandatory of course, but when someone cuts such video into pieces covering the problematic moments with static photos from the same event, it makes you wonder about how truthful this person is and just when you've been so kind to publish ZTP you migth as well do the same with IPO.
ReplyDeleteClaiming first IPO boring is more than idiotic. IPO 1 is the most important step for working dog where 2 and 3 are extra effort on the top of solid foundations.
Once again, nothing is mandatory, but don't you think a winner dog has to have it all?
I also agree that it's not the biggest matter if he has IPO video, ZTP video (with or without static photos), or does not have. Who will be interested in him - will use without video, who won't be interested - will not use also with video.
ReplyDeleteYou are right, but it is good to show to everybody that your dog is capable of being a dobermann, a working breed with stable character.Internet is full of IPO trials, and , beleive me, when I am planning to mate my females, I always search for ZTP and IPO trials of particular male.That shows me a lot about the dog! Maybe there are some new breeder who does not care about dobermann character, only for cups and who is the father of litter, to sell puppies easily, but those are not breeders, those are just passengers through the race, who are ruining the breed, producing bad and unstable or timid characters. There are so may famous males and producers who are also excelent in work! There is no need to go to championships, they are at first, show dogs, but is the best when you use a real dobermann male!
ReplyDeleteWe as public have the right to know and owner/breeder has responsibility to disclose such information.
ReplyDeleteWho was IPO judge?
What was the score?
Where is video of IPO trial?
We are not all idiots! No more this virtual shit!
AnonymousSeptember 24, 2012 2:34 PM
ReplyDeleteQUICKSTEP'S PRESENTATION ON THE-DOBERMANN SITE SAYS HE HAS IPO1 SO HOW COME THERE IS NO VIDEO OF THE EXAM AVAILABLE?
If you read correctly on the Dobermann Review under his work you will see that its says IPO1 in preparation, To me that means he is still in training and does not have the title yet, There for there could not be any video of his IPO1 because he never did it yet !
And I have to agree not every one films a trail to place on You tube. That doesn't make a person good or bad if you do not share it with the world, its called freedom of choice.
So, which one is more reliable?
ReplyDeleteSo , if you have some balls and are able to sign something with your name , just write an email to the owner or breeder and ask if you are so interested to know .
ReplyDeleteThis threatening attitude just adds to the possible IPO fraud the breeder pulled.
ReplyDeleteThe best at all, IDC 2012 is Eureka del nasi
ReplyDeleteOh yea? How about some faults definition by the breed standard?
ReplyDeleteroman nose
insufficient chest markings
open front
Eureka del Nasi
Do not watch videos, go and learn about a particular dog yourself. Visit the owner, watch him/her working with your own eyes and then make a choice. This virtual judging makes me vomit. Virtual experts without any clue and to lazy or to poor to take some time and money to travel to see what you get in reality.
ReplyDeleteSiete solo molto invidiosi della progenie di Urbano. Siete dei bla bla bla
ReplyDeleteEureka is the caracter of dog that can be a model for all
ReplyDeleteYeah and where is her IPO video?
ReplyDeleteJust how stupid is this, Wiblishauser gives third place to Eureka at Romanian club show and then 2 months later he gives her IDC Siegerin title. Was competition that hard in Romania?
ReplyDeleteRomanian Club Show results
Exc.1 - Tom-Dober NELLY NORA NICOL (Tom-Dober Hagi - Tom-Dober Effi)
Exc.2 - LOIRE v. Hunnoterra (Hilo v. Nemesis - Jericho v. Hunnoterra)
Exc.3 - EUREKA del Nasi (Zedor del Nasi - Gloria del Nasi)
Go to son of Simon and he show you IPO
ReplyDeleteWhat a stupid comment!
ReplyDelete"Just how stupid is this, Wiblishauser gives third place to Eureka at Romanian club show and then 2 months later he gives her IDC Siegerin title. Was competition that hard in Romania? "
ReplyDeleteAnswer : Simon resolved somehow his problem with Pezzano in this time between Romanian Club Show and IDC .
It seems that Ben Dover mediated the negotiations.
ReplyDeleteYep, Simon is Pezzano's bitch now :)
ReplyDeleteQuickstep is a nice dog with nice head expression , correct eyes , without shit molosoidal traits .
ReplyDeleteHe is sufficiently correct and have sufficiently good genetic to be used .
Inclusive by working lines which spend their last genetical reserve using shit lines.
and yes I trolling the nervs of molosoidal surrogate breeders which destroyed entire EasternEurope genepool in a huge GENOCIDE and I will continue to do that .
W.A.
Here, by 15 years almost all dobermanns died less than 10 years and endure Cancer, DCM, stomachal, Displazia , wobbler. Was a desaster.
ReplyDeleteIn a day I will say all their names.
Then breeders which breeded that lines must to understand that their era has gone and except destruction and a imense sorrow , they failed.
Is time to change ,all what happened now make part from a invisible changing plan.
io ero li' all'IDC durante l'incidente del cane che morso le tre persone! l'allevatore e' corso in aiuto di due stranieri ed il cane non era di Prisconte ma un cane straniero! e' inutile fare nomi di cani che non c'entrano!
ReplyDeletevergogna! cani cosi sono pazzi offendono il dobermann
ReplyDeleteMa guarda che c'erano 100 persone presenti, tutti sanno che è stato il cane Junior sirio di Prisconte, di Aldo D'anna.Non cercare di salvare o mascherare l'incopentenza e la leggerezza di un allevatore,avrebbe dovuto lasciare il cane a casa in un box, (sapendo già quello che aveva commesso in precedenza).
ReplyDeleteE' semplicemente una vergogna che una persona così faccia parte dell' AIAD, dovrebbe essere squalificato da tutte le manifestazioni, ma sappiamo da chi è protetto.
Fosse successo ad un altro l'avrebbero cancellatto da tutti gli albi del club. Vergogna!
LIAR! were many to 'IDC you are one of them who defends himself by saying lies, the breeder Prisconte not' been able to stop his dog "Junior"! that fool!! endangering other people. tell the truth 'do not you hide with lies. Shame on you!Shame on you!Shame on you!I read about a poor and that 'he was attacked by the dog! it's ' the truth '
ReplyDeletePlease speak english!!
ReplyDelete--- true breeder incompetent! after what he did the dog was not even wearing it in public. I hope they take action in AIAD
ReplyDeleteil cane e' junior sirio di prisconte,no kiro!.un cane che ha dato molti problemi in precedenza. l'allevatore ha dimostrato che non lo sa' gestire "grande incompetente" l'AIAD non fara' nulla "si sa' da chi e' protetto"
ReplyDeletethe two people rushed to the aid of the farmer is not 'the opposite
ReplyDeleteQUICKSTEP King of Darkness is the best male,title deserved.great trunk. expression and character-exellent head
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone have video of photos of that attack?
ReplyDeletepoor Wiblishauser with age 'is going blind, his eyes are Pezzano!!
ReplyDeleteeach year wins a son of Alamo,knows' why?
ReplyDeleteQuickstep = Urbano 3:2 inbreeding. Try mating to any female with Urbano ih her pedigree and see what happens :)
ReplyDeleteBla Bla ... I think there is not the possibility of telling more gossip without substance like it is happening here . I am not a fan of Wibli and co , but the more I read here on this site it shows , we need them , who else should do the job , the jealous idiots who writes here on this page ?! Ridiculous !
ReplyDelete"we need them , who else should do the job"
ReplyDelete@Bla Bla
I guess that means the breed is gone once they are gone because, according to you, no one else could possibly do he job. Btw, what job exactly?
their job is only to hold their pockets open for money and holding their hands open for flighttickets to places where they can judge shows or ztp's to get more money in their pockets and spend a nice holiday at no cost.
ReplyDeleteWibli and his gang have bent the rules for personal gain, altered and fractured. Result: diseases, loss of performance, loss of Genpool and a breed standard that has to do hardly anything to do with the Doberman. That everyone knows. The real shame is the breeders who this know exactly , but still not the head out of Wibli's ass move, so they are praised at a beauty show. Braver breeders, so it's good. Make nice with the bullshit, then is also a trophy. How long they will still argue about beauty? 160 posts on this topic. About 60% of Dobermans die of DCM. Where are the articles about health and future of the breed?
ReplyDeleteThis breed has no future.
ReplyDelete"This breed has no future."
ReplyDeleteI agree absolutely. I am a dobermann fan and I had my kennel, I had good results. I stopped my activity due to the health problems, due to the show maffia, etc. I don't saw any future for the breed. But here are a lot of people, just writing "blablabla" and ask to demonstrate show entries... How many breeder stepped back from IDC competence? I guess no one. You, everyone here, are just writing the old "blablabla" and do nothing. You are the same as on who you made criticism.
The only possibility is that emerge from anonymity.
ReplyDeleteOnly if several of you take a clear position and say: " I do with no more", there is a small chance. If you wish to remain Anonymous, I ask least a dialogue, what opportunities have the breed. here or in dobermannforum.com ( everyone can write anonym ) or contact me at info@dobermann-verein-ev.de
These problems will never be solved until there is a serious house cleaning at the DV.
ReplyDeleteAnonymousSeptember 25, 2012 2:29 PM
ReplyDeletetheir job is only to hold their pockets open for money and holding their hands open for flighttickets to places where they can judge shows or ztp's to get more money in their pockets and spend a nice holiday at no cost.
Reply
Yes !!! it's the same when Wiblish or others come in France ... nice time in "Moulin Rouge" with J.P Godart...and after he win with F'Willo in working class black male !!!! shameful
Well, the only thing to be done is to separate from FCI and DV since they will change the standard and definetly destroy the Breed. Whoever like it or not, cropping ban damaged the Breed as much as DCM, even more :(
ReplyDeleteDCM can be put under control by RESPONSABLE BREEDING under eventualy new club. I haven't entered my dogs on IDC and will never do it again until things change. My dogs are realy good and can win everywhere, but for me it's enough. Either things will change - either you will not see good and healthy dogs on IDC! This year missed many dogs I wanted to see because of breeding plans; probably we have the same opinion about this show :(
Instead paying to IDC, I've paid for 3 holters (dogs aged 4,5 and 7).
AnonymousSeptember 25, 2012 12:20 PM
ReplyDeleteQuickstep = Urbano 3:2 inbreeding. Try mating to any female with Urbano ih her pedigree and see what happens :)
We will do that and we will see :-) For sure I preffer a dog with a background as Urbano , a 10 years dog in perfect shape , capable to mate as a young one and not impotent as many many many others (and I know what i talk).
prisconte not lie!
ReplyDeleteWe all heard her daughter say aldo: mom mom dad LEO YOU EAT!
Do not lie! shame!
the dog was as well magnati
and the ZTP shame!
...and I preffer Urbano before lines with great dane chareacter eyes and big head fully by skin with imense great dane head stop , which died less than 8 years by cancer or dcm or endure wobbler. ...and I know what I talk again.
ReplyDeleteSo, inbreeding on Urbano 3:2:2, or 3:2:3 and then again one more circle in next generation, just to make sure :) Some geneticist you are.
ReplyDelete""we need them , who else should do the job"
ReplyDelete@Bla Bla
I guess that means the breed is gone once they are gone because, according to you, no one else could possibly do he job. Btw, what job exactly?"
Blowjob, what some people are doing to win :)
AnonymousSeptember 25, 2012 10:23 PM
ReplyDeleteSo, inbreeding on Urbano 3:2:2, or 3:2:3 and then again one more circle in next generation, just to make sure :)
_____________________
Yes we will do that . Don't learn me how we can create circles. Take care by your inbreeding and incets again and again and again and again in same ill ancestors till almost destroy entire breed !
sorry, does anyone know 'if the dog has attacked the ZTP?
ReplyDeleteyes!!!! it's' taken a few months earlier with Mr Pezzano
ReplyDeleteI was present at the ZTP Junior Sirio Prisconte, it happened after he attacked and ruined this young woman, Pezzano knew everything, because the woman's husband phoned him, but this is not enough to stop Aldo d'anna and her mad dog. The result? 1A V EX (Pezzano) but the nice thing about that when he went to the post was 5 meters from the dog, all were present and saw. These are the ZTP in Italy, friends do not count the dogs, the usual shame of the past 30 years.
ReplyDeleteit's true!!This race has no future!many tricks
ReplyDeleteyou who were present at the ZTP know many things!the dog was registered with the IDC
ReplyDeleteand why 'is not presented??How dare enter a dog that has these problems
yes the dog'junior sirio is in the catalog! open class number 114
ReplyDeletesee the bloodline of Urano and Urwan(unbalanced),does anyone know 'sisters or brothers "junior sirio" that are around? mad dogs!!!!
ReplyDeletePride of Russia KASPIJ :after his insistent presence! will rise 'by the way? not 'even a good player!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteIf this is all true regarding Junior Sirio, I do not get what's the point to demonstrate such male in public. Mean if there are problems why to take them "out of house" in such a dangerous way...
ReplyDeleteKaspj??????he not reproduction! her children only win in France!
ReplyDeleteNow we will see if Doct. Pezzano is a serious AIAD
ReplyDeletepresident as well as an international judge by taking some action against Prissconte and his dog.
If he does not take action the entire dobermann community will know what is going on between Pezzano and Prisconte.
well, everyone talking about urbano and por and males, i wonder everyone is satisfied with the brown females? lol..
ReplyDeleteExc.3 - Tahi-Reme LORELAI
ReplyDelete(Ron del Fiorsilva - Tahi-Reme Quinie) this was a big joke for sure, dog was not even standing properly, barking moving back always.. even erika take handling from his husband but dog again was not STANDING. For sure taht dog dont deserve to be in finals also taking exc3..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p61On3wGOiI&feature=player_embedded
STOP ignorant! the incident 'happened away from the ring! the AIAD should not take action! the disqualification is made to "Urwan" that was in the ring of the Show! dog prisconte was away! Mr.Pezzano not have to do anything! clear leading experts of the dobermann!
ReplyDeleteBrown Female Siegerin - very "original" choice, specially in comparison with Havana dei Due Intenti:)
ReplyDeleteBrown female Siegerin can't be better choice , no other female on Idc can compare to her . You talk about character and ipo 1 ? She laughs about it , she qualified for Idc Wm 4 months ago , with 2 years and Ipo 3 . Everybody who is doubting her because maybe female xy have a little bit better head or something else has no plan of the breed . She is exactly what should always been choosen , the complete Dobermann who is able to work !
ReplyDeleteso when IDC became working show?
ReplyDeleteSince it is a breeding selection for a working breed. Go and learn something about the breed if you want to discuss , or buy a poodle .
ReplyDeleteRe: "STOP ignorant! the incident 'happened away from the ring!". You idiot. In most civilized countries the police would have come and taken the dog - in or out of the ring - and most probably it would next be euthanized. In a less civilized country it would have been shot right there. This kind of dog has no place in the breed.
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely correct this kind of dog has no place in our beloved breed. As you have mentioned in a civilized country the police should have taken the dog because he was in public grounds.
ReplyDeleteWhy is there nowhere to see how many dogs were present at IDC. there was no results boards at rings either this year. Any answer please
ReplyDeleteBefore you continue ripping Aldo in public someone should at least explain what the hell happened to cause that attack. It is not nice to accuse just because you don't like Prisconte dogs or Aldo. Anyway, looking as isolated case the dog showed his potential, unlike most of pussies in the rings, like Urwan who had not even balls to bite properly.
ReplyDelete#524 Izrafel Impressive Ivona - disqualified for dog aggression
ReplyDeleteKaspij took title on diligence!
ReplyDeleteI was there and I saw a helper trying to do some bite work with the dog.
ReplyDeleteIt is good that this site exists. The other two doberman sites are owned by individuals who are kneeling in front of so called leadership and would have no guts to write about problems and scandals in this breed. Ever!
ReplyDelete"I was there and I saw a helper trying to do some bite work with the dog."
ReplyDeleteWith Sirio?
Urwan's owner did pretty much the same but with tug! The dog wore prong collar all the time.