Tuesday, December 27, 2011

IDC SIEGER FINALLY PASSES IPO1 .... But take a closer look..

 TRIALS  IPO  
FLASH NEWS!!!! THE DOBERMANN IDC SIEGER HAS PASSED HIS IPO TEST!


see here >>>



But consider these -

1. The judge, helper and handler are all the ones used by kennels like Noblesshoff, Betelges, etc. Why not in Germany or Even Denmark?? After all, is he NOT the representative of the 'German' Dobermann breed?
Is his owner and life not in Denmark?



Maybe because he would have failed there... and in fact, probably failed in most any other places in Europe,  under other judges or helpers..

2. Look at the whole sequence.. see how much assistance the dog is getting from the helper? It looks like a training run than a serious trial for an important dog.. [ I say important because the Youtube video started with his IDC winner picture]

3. Look at the bitework - the hold and bark is not good, and worse still, the bite is hesitant, weak and the helper is never hard on the dog. In fact, it can be clearly seen that this trial was done and made very easy for him to pass.

I challenge the owner to put this dog into a true trial or IPO1 competition, even against other Danish Dobermanns..

We are not blind.

163 comments:

  1. And in the original video we see that there is only 2 people in the group, and in the trial program from FCI it is described that a group is 4 people, so it's no good, and the judge is one of the 2 people, how can he give judgment of the dogs work in the group ???

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  2. Now really, why would World Club Winner go for IPO1 trial in Serbia and not in his birth land or even Germany? If I got it right Athos' was bred and born in Denmark, right? Does he still live there or is he sold to Serbia?

    As I've learned the dog had IDC titles three times so far:
    IDC Puppy Sieger 2009
    IDC intermedia class Winner 2010
    IDC Sieger 2011
    ...not to mention highly prestigious Danish titles (lol):
    DANISH GOLD DOG 2011
    DANISH DOBERMANN WINNER 2011
    Danish Dobermann Junior Winner 2010
    Best Danish Breed Dobermann 2010
    Best Danish Breed Dobermann 2011

    So the question remains: is this dog truly worthy of his titles, especially after quite meek performance he had displayed on his first working trial attempt which he actually passed, by the way?

    We do understand that not every dog, let alone every doberman, is able to do the job, but why then this dog carry so many important titles and therefore was irresponsibly put on the global throne, so people with less knowledge would assume this Athos as something rather special and that he would be marked in the breed history as some kind of fine example or what?

    Actually, it is quite the opposite and yes the dog has no true working ability, but it is not only the trainer's liability - it is simply dog's weak character and that is, I am afraid irreparable. That of course does not make him lesser dog nor he should be loved less than he deserves, it only makes him doubtful champ.

    A dog is born with such skills or not. There is no way, nor trainer who can simply teach the dog to bite hard or to be consistent at A.
    B was constantly teased with hidden bait and the handler was struggling with his/her own fear about dog's performance a bit and last, but not least C was well, horrible or at least pathetic. They made that dog do something he has no joy participating in and that, my friends, was not the right thing to do.

    I will not be talking here about his show qualities because it seems to have become a matter of personal taste or politics recently (and not just within boundaries of this specific breed) and perhaps I am not too qualified for that, but let me tell you this - with work things can not be easily cheated. A dog either works or not and Athos surely does not.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I am sure Serbia has more fine trainers then one but somehow this one failed on his/her first important task and that is to estimate the abilities of the dog and only then she/he would (not) dare to go for it.
    That helper did his share of assistance as well hence the position - the helper I guess.
    On the top of that all they were too stupid or cocky to make that video where we can see many traits, among which - a helper who kicks the dog off the sleeve with his knee. Was judge blinded by the snow?

    Perhaps some solid German (or even Italian for that matter) trainer would put this boy Athos through his paces but we will probably never know that won't we? Unless...his owner dare going for IPO2 and that would be the utterly insane.

    And again, Serbia has proved itself to be much desired ground for easy-peasy (although as it seems both trainer and judge are presumably Hungarians) and not just for IPO trials and I trust that it is not alone in such prospect: there are other countries playing this game as well and you'd be surprised to learn about some of them. However, the nationality plays little if no role in this mess - It's always about people and they should be put to trial, not the dogs. Cheers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This Sieger dog shows everything that is wrong with the Dobermann and with the system that nurtures and rewards dogs like this within the breed today.
      And why *SchH1? A dog winning a SIEGER title should have an IPO3. (*SchH1 is easier that IPO1, because the handler can pick the dog up in the blind rather than do a call out.)
      If the shitty performance was only due to bad training it might not matter. But it's not.
      The dog has NIL seriousness and NIL work ethic! And those are traits that can't be trained. Throughout the program it plays like a silly pup (i.e.: chews the dumbbell, heels totally out of position looking for his ball and to call this protection work is a charade.) The Agitator does not act as a rival to the dog. There is no pressure put on the dog at any phase in Part C and the Agitator consistently feeds the sleeve into the dog's mouth (and even then the dog can't manage to hang onto it and fails to hold the grip on all the visible occasions!)
      If what is shown represents the “acceptable” bits for people to watch, then I would hate to see the pieces that were cut out of it!
      Putting aside the dog's obviously soft and useless working character, there’s plenty to criticize about the performance itself. Excessive handler help and a lack of control make up the bulk of the most obvious technical faults of the handler. But clearly neither the judge nor the Agitator has understood their responsibilities either. There was no opportunity for the Judge to evaluate courage and fighting spirit because the Judge has not demanded the Agitator work the dog correctly and so the dog never got challenged and never got out of prey drive throughout the performance.
      But if this is what the IDC are satisfied with and are promoting and this is what people want to breed with in future, then that’s OK as long as these dogs aren’t allowed to sail under false colors. Because they are not Dobermanns, they are black and tan dogs and so they need a name more appropriate to what they represent.
      I vote we hold a naming competition for this newly discovered breed of dog!
      I’ll kick things off. What about naming it after its biggest benefactor? IDCis Wibliusum Maximus Softae Canis.

      Delete
    2. Also, according to the Rules it is VERBOTEN to hold a trial in snow.

      Delete
    3. Specifically, it is VEBOTEN to lay trial tracks in snow.

      Delete
    4. I vote we hold a naming competition for this newly discovered breed of dog!
      I’ll kick things off. What about naming it after its biggest benefactor? IDCis Wibliusum Maximus Softae Canis.

      A good name for the new breed of dog we see here.Mr Wibli should be PROUD.

      Delete
  3. A lot of cutting in this view, they edited it so it looked "right" all the faults are deleted, it`s just a training with a judge to say hurray and gongrats with the IPO result, we share HURRAY...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Does anyone know what was the scores?

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    2. A:96 B:93 C:86

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  4. Lay down in motion with the TOUCH- the rules were changed or what???

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    Replies
    1. for IDC sieger the rules are different...;-)

      Delete
  5. Correct me if I am wrong - but does it not say in IPO1 that the dog shall be called OUT of the blind? Are we now allowed to go in and get the dog?
    And give it a tap to make it lay down? Even near stop for sit command?

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  6. Not only that, hurdle for retrieving is not 100 cm high. Helper is not using soft stick, but whip is used here for dog stimulation.
    Total score 275 points! A: 96, B: 93, C:86
    Wow! This must be a joke.

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    Replies
    1. The joke is to stand now in workingclass toghether with this dog...such a shame !

      Delete
  7. What is wrong with people today, this is this years biggest joke in the Dobermann world.

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  8. Isn't the figurant Pierre Lundahl? Son of Hanne Lundahl, owner of Kennel Dobergaarden Forever?
    A person that Athos is totally comfortable with...

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  9. Lets face it the dog is pet quality

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  10. I think Athos is a very nice dog, lovely boy and friendly and great to be a family dog. But problem is when he is selected as the Sieger and representative of the race. For all other breeders, owners and people who work this breed...it is simply a mistake. And to claim he is IPO qualified, only because he is Sieger...

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  11. No the figurant is not Pierre Lundahl! Figurant is a total unknown person to Athos. And in many countries you are allowed to go in and get the dogs. Diffent countries - different rules!

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  12. So the question remains: is this dog truly worthy of his titles, especially after quite meek performance he had displayed on his first working trial attempt which he actually passed, by the way?

    -this is not the first trial for this dog. ;-)

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  13. "-this is not the first trial for this dog. ;-)"

    It is not? Are you counting in the ZTP as well? Cheers.

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  14. No I am not counting the ZTP tests - look into danish dogweb, the dog has tried for IPO-V several times. Not passing.

    ReplyDelete
  15. To all the writers, why dont you put your name on the things thats written, why anonymous said ???
    Are you scared ?

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  16. Qoute:And in many countries you are allowed to go in and get the dogs. Diffent countries - different rules!

    That is strange.. ? If you read FCI rules it clearly state this:
    3. “Prevention of an attempted escape of the helper”
    After the hold and bark exercise, the handler calls the help out of the blind, who is
    to exit in a normal pace and places himself/herself at the designated spot as assigned by the judge
    (marked spot).

    :-)

    ReplyDelete
  17. @Lene Andersen
    I think for exactly the same reason you did not put your personal picture on your Facebook profile.

    ReplyDelete
  18. My deepest appologies for pasting the wrong phase of rules..
    :Remark:
    If the handler and dog cannot report in in the proper manner, for instance the dog is not under control
    and runs for example to the bark and hold blind or from the field, the handler may give up to 3
    commands to recall the dog.
    If the dog does not come back after the 3
    rd
    recall, then phase “C” is regarded as a “disqualification due to
    lack of control”.

    -strange rule if it is allowed to get the dog - isnt that the BHP programe instead? Or VPG ?

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    Replies
    1. No call out is optional in the SchH1 program (SV Rules, now called VPG.) So why has the dog titled as an IPO1?

      Delete
  19. I am the one who wrote the longest comment here, so will continue from now as "DrBeat"

    When it comes to trials, I actually heard that Athos actually passed his ZTP from his second attempt. Could that be truth?

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  20. DrBeat: No that is not thrue - Athos past his ZTP in first attempt!

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  21. "No I am not counting the ZTP tests - look into danish dogweb, the dog has tried for IPO-V several times. Not passing"

    Only twice!!

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  22. @Susanne Skov
    Thank you for the ZTP information.
    Isn't "only twice" more or less equal to "several"?

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  23. @DrBeat
    Maybe in your head - not in mine!

    ReplyDelete
  24. Wonder why some persons are defending this dog ?
    Can it be, that they have dogs from the same kennel, and bloodline ?
    Or even used the same trainer/judge ???

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    Replies
    1. All of the above mentioned are correct. Now just to wait and see how many from that kennel gets their IPO trials at this "wondertrainer".

      Delete
  25. @Susanne Skov
    In that case something is seriously wrong with your head, which I hope is not the case because "several" is anything more than "one".
    There is no argue over that.

    i.e. Try passing ZTP more than twice and you shall notice the difference.

    ReplyDelete
  26. @Well said

    I think they are defending Heidi and diving deeply into other asses at the same time. Double benefit and pleasure.
    What they don't want to notice is the fact that this has nothing to do with the dog itself but with the people who made Athos what he is now. Both in terms of shows and work!
    Owner herself has little to do with it as she is just a puppet hanging on Grand Puppeteer's strings...and her dog too.
    I personally feel sorry for both of them, because no one deserves to be used like that...and then to be thrown to the lions.

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  27. Why shouldn´t somebody defend the dog - what is the matter with the dog?

    ReplyDelete
  28. @DrBeat
    OK I know your type of person - always being rude if somebody means something else than you!
    Off cource you are wrigth - there is something seriously wrong in my head sitting here wrighting on this blog!

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    Replies
    1. YOU are the one beeing rude here, not anybody else. As far as I can see, this Dr Beat answers you in a much more polite tone that you deserve. Maybe this hysteria of yours works in your life normally,for people you know. But here you just come out somewhat ridicoulus,defending in such a way a dog of such poor quality it can hardly be named a dobermann,and people who clearly base their lifes on lies,cheating and deception.

      Delete
  29. @Susanne Skvo
    Why are you here then?

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  30. Better to pass an IPO 1 trial in this manner than by an arranged IPO like some champions have and you will never ever see any video of their exam. Question is : he could or not pass this trial even with minimum points in another exam ?
    Do not forget : this year was no AIAD, so maybe it was better for somebody that winner is from Denmark if Italy and Germany didn't have IDC prequalified Winner.

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  31. You mean: better to act and edit IPO than just to buy it? What is the difference and why it has to be any compromise over that?

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  32. Yes , it is better to edit than to make IPO exam papers at a cup of beer! If was edited something for what the dog had to be disqualified is something else. What parts were edited : last part from A part (second object) and from B the front sending. Yes, the points are high, but it wasn't a championship, just exam where usually points are higher at IPO 1. I am not an ATHOS fan, but I like his work better than of other IDC siegers or multi champion dogs whose work was never seen. He won at beauty show not working IDC, anbother thing if he deserved to win even in beauty IDC show !

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  33. So in not so many words - no video, no legit IPO?

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  34. @no video, no legit IPO ?

    I was not speaking about this. I was talking about IDC Siegers and other multi champions or IDC 1 placed in classes. Maybe it is not too much money now a video camera to record the IPO with such high class dogs. You can see at most of them a lot of photos, but interesting : no work video. Amazing, no ?

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  35. @about IDC Siegers and other multi champions

    Let's name some shall we?

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  36. Just a single comment:

    Athos had his ZTP one attempt with V1A

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  37. @ZTP
    Everything is possible these days.

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  38. ZTP from Becht means mutch?? OMG...he gives SG1b to dogs that should be atleast held back! How many dogs EVER did he held back?
    And even if this test in mention is not a competition - 96points for that track???!!! On what planet is the judge? The dog stops and looks around, gets help in the angle,lies almost in oposite direction to the track, and I can only imagine that last part we do not get to see...
    People defending this so desperately I imagine are in the same boat,as someone said:used the same judge,helper and/or trainer..

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  39. One of you people talking here had this year a female in show in Denmark. This female was very scared with tail between legs and got "Good". No breeding permission!! Is this the kind of dogs you want???
    Look at Athos what a nice dog he is. Always happy and ready to make fun. He is a good family dog and live in Heidis home. He can work if he is asked for. He is the kind of dog that many people want because he has perfekt carakter. He has not been treaten like a badminton racket or golf clubs you just put away when YOU decide that fun is over.

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    Replies
    1. athos has perfekt charackter? For what breed? Certainly not for a dobermann. For a dobermann he is a shame. And talking about not beeing a toy to take out whenever it is proper -explain to us then why athos has gone from trainer to trainer in foreign country,his owner having him back for a short time,then off he goes again,coming on to the scene only for "important" shows,then stuffed back in foreign country for more "training".

      Delete
  40. ...perfect character of a Labrador, not Doberman who suppose to be a WORKING breed!

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  41. Oh my god. Yet another bought IPO from Vejlko in Serbia. This can only be done because of the large amount of money involved. This performance is a disgrace for the dobermann race. I know the dog, and it can not work properly- even in training it fails.
    Btw In Denmark we have a IPO test called BHP1 (for GSD) where it actually is allowed to get the dog in the blind where it is guarding.

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    Replies
    1. Don`t think Vejlko was involved in just this one. They have other puppets too. But intresting to see such a comment from someone who actually know the dog. Thank you for the honesty !

      Delete
  42. Athos is maybe nice and happy, good family character, but please forget about his manwork! Don´t blame yourself, he has not even nearly perfect character for doberman. It is evident, that under slightly more pressure from helper this dog would leave him and surrender.
    Quo vadis, doberman? What kind of dogs we need? This is good question.
    This dog is also nice and happy, no tail between the legs, but can you see the difference in character between those two?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFCd742-V8I
    And please do not raise an objection, that this huge difference is a question of training, because it naturally isn´t. Don´t take me wrong, but you cannot teach the chicken fly.

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  43. Poor training of the dog. Definitly. He has nice temperament, very good focus on the handler. On track he is too quick, even for a dobermann. Dont mind the snow was there and tracks can be seen from a mile away, the dogs gets lost. As soon as he doesnt find the objects, the handler comes in. I call it poor training. In obedience he performs quite well but the details are not done properly, poor training. Bitework is a disaster. I cant see the details but it looks like he hardly has the grip on that sleeve. Well, people, this is serbia. Cheap and lousy.

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    Replies
    1. Don`t blame Serbia for this shit! The trainer/judge is Hungarian, and the breeder of this dog is far more cheap and lousy then even the gypsies in Serbia.
      Her breeding reflects her to perfection.
      Serbia may be dodgy, but this goes beyond any of serbians...

      Delete
  44. ce faci BA tigane

    ReplyDelete
  45. Look at Athos what a nice dog he is. Always happy and ready to make fun. He is a good family dog and live in Heidis home. He can work if he is asked for. He is the kind of dog that many people want because he has perfekt carakter. He has not been treaten like a badminton racket or golf clubs you just put away when YOU decide that fun is over.


    -Yes. Always happy just like a golden retreiver - he is simply wonderful and friendly to everyone. Lois is rolling over in his grave.
    I am sure Athos is a great familydog - but the video clearly states that he is not for working,and so please do not say so. the dobermann is a WORKING breed, accept it - and also accept the fact that not all dobermanns work equally good. This is nothing to fight over - this is the truth.
    Also nothing personal, but please stop defending a dog that so clearly shows he is not for work.
    Not IPO1, not BHP1, not VPG1 or not SCHH1.
    Again I beg you to remember - this is nothing peronal, but please open your eyes!

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  46. I dont know this dog, but I've seen much worse dogs pass IPO1 in germany and with VERY nice points.. Compared to these, this dog is actually doing a pretty good job!
    Come on folks! If this is a showdog, then let it bee. It have probably earned this title more than most other showdogs! If you want to breed top-workingdogs and dont approve this dogs work - Then dont use it!

    ReplyDelete
  47. What kind of dogs we need? This is good question.
    This dog is also nice and happy, no tail between the legs, but can you see the difference in character between those two?

    WHY do we have to choose? Why not have a Sieger that can WORK properly? Not divide the breed like GSD...
    It is ONE dobermann! ONE. Not divide it, please!
    I give you all links to beautiful dogs that actually can work too. enjoy. And guess what? One of them is SIEGER..

    http://youtu.be/S9GQVlg4MPc

    http://youtu.be/lX44_efkh-4

    http://youtu.be/aVa651OTAhA

    http://youtu.be/bJeAVdxdUVw

    http://youtu.be/3mnR4qzM68o

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  48. "It is ONE dobermann! ONE. Not divide it, please!"
    That has allready happened - face that! The workingline-people - and the showline-people are not breeding the same way. It is two different lines like GSD!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This has not already happened to that extent that it can`t be turned around. There are plenty of breeders out there, who have INT.CH dogs with HONEST IPO3 trials under their belts.
      It is just getting a bit harder to find them..
      But they exist !

      Delete
  49. DrBeat said...
    @Susanne Skov
    In that case something is seriously wrong with your head, which I hope is not the case because "several" is anything more than "one".
    There is no argue over that.

    I guess DrBeat must reconsider who this applies to "In that case something is seriously wrong with your head"

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/several
    several
    (obsolete) Separate, distinct; particular. [15th-19th c.]  [quotations ▼]
    A number of different; various. (Now merged into later senses, below) [from 16th c.]
    Consisting of a number more than two or three but not very many; diverse. [from 17th c.]  [quotations ▼]
    [edit]

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  50. @Unnar Már
    You are seriously trolling now. I suggest you try improving your education elsewhere. Wiki is not and should not be primary source of it.

    ReplyDelete
  51. One ?
    Why is a dog used for breeding with so few health results?
    For me, most importantly the health!

    ReplyDelete
  52. Health
    HD - A
    Von Willenbrand test - free
    Cardio free d. 25.02.2011 on Bygholm Dyrehospital by Gustaf Valentiner-Branth

    ReplyDelete
  53. No trolling on my part. I just find it -very- wrong to "correct" someone and insult at the same time and be dead wrong........

    You can just verify this by following this search link from Google where it points out many dictionaries with same definition on the word several.

    http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=definition+of+several&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

    Please point me to dictionary that has different definition for the word several and I will apologize for stating something that has maybe different definition by some other dictionary, but it still doesn't make it right to insult someone that is clearly braver than those that feel the need to hide.

    Peace,

    Unnar Már

    ReplyDelete
  54. Health
    HD - A
    Von Willenbrand test - free
    Cardio free d. 25.02.2011 on Bygholm Dyrehospital by Gustaf Valentiner-Branth

    What about.
    Elbows?
    Eyes?
    DCM DNA? One of his halfsister is DCM Het.

    In my world, if a dog is so good, with so many fine results in the showring, is being used as a stud, he have to have as many health test as possible!

    Or has the world gone mad, are we only going after the titles now, and not the health??
    I'm not saying this to be cruel or anything, but I hope we all want healthy dogs, don't we?

    ReplyDelete
  55. As I am concerned this DCM DNA is nothing worth. Dogs who is tested negative is positive in cardiotest. I see many people say this - you cannot believe in this test - it is not worth the money! I see breeder in scandinavian country who did the test to his female - she was hetero and he decided to mate her with homo male!!!!!
    Elbows has not been big problems with dobermanns - correct me if I am wrong, and the same with eyes!

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  56. I think we owe it to our self, our dogs future breeding and puppy buyers to make as much health test as possible...

    I see breeder in scandinavian country who did the test to his female - she was hetero and he decided to mate her with homo male!!!!!

    Then he is plain stupid, and is not breeding for the dobermann race, but for him self, and that is not allright!

    ReplyDelete
  57. What about.
    Elbows?
    Eyes?
    DCM DNA? One of his halfsister is DCM Het

    This is something to think about, just go check how many halfsiblings to this dog has Eyes decease degrees ranging from 1-6. And the DCM DNA test is not woth mutch alone - to a used stud should be 24hour HOLTER, EKG and ultrasound. Combined.
    But then again - only own breeder has used him. Others have eyes.

    ReplyDelete
  58. @Unnar Már
    What is the level of your education, except for google search?

    I was quite precise and will be again by quoting myself:
    "several" is anything more than "one".
    There is no argue over that.

    i.e. Try passing ZTP more than twice and you shall notice the difference.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Someone here said:
    "Look at Athos what a nice dog he is. Always happy and ready to make fun. He is a good family dog and live in Heidis home. He can work if he is asked for. He is the kind of dog that many people want because he has perfekt carakter. He has not been treaten like a badminton racket or golf clubs you just put away when YOU decide that fun is over. "

    Just how much time has Athos spent at home?
    I mean he is not yet 3 years old and he had already changed at least two trainers and spent significant amount of time not only out of home, but away from Denmark. C'mon, don't even try to sell that bullshit fairy tale to us. That dog has changed many hands while growing up and has no real connection to any human in particular.

    I think this photo of forceful affection speaks for itself

    http://www.doberman.org.ua/show_photo/2011_idc/open_males/dobergaarden_forever_atos.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  60. he is not yet 3 years old and he had already changed at least two trainers and spent significant amount of time not only out of home, but away from Denmark. C'mon, don't even try to sell that bullshit fairy tale to us.


    AMEN. To say this dog is great familydog? Second biggest joke of the year.He has no connection to "his" family, having spent more then half his life at pro trainers..
    c,c,c,.....!

    ReplyDelete
  61. @But then again - only own breeder has used him. Others have eyes.
    --
    As far as I know, he has offspring in Serbia too.

    ReplyDelete
  62. @Susanne Skov ...
    Didn't your female pass her IPO1 on the very same day as Athos did - under the same judge and helper ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is this true ? Then no wonder this woman defending athos like she does! She maybe has just as good female. Such a shame.

      Delete
    2. Did she pass the IPO1? Her dog is even worse than Athos! What judge judge was it?

      Delete
    3. "Did she pass the IPO1? Her dog is even worse than Athos! What judge judge was it?"

      Who is writing this - why are you anonymomus? Please tell me what is wrong whith me dog?

      Delete
    4. If it was the same day, and at the same trainer, then the judge was the same as for athos also - the one with moneyglasses on...;-)

      Delete
    5. I have no problems in answering questions to people who have balls enough to tell me who they are! But all this anonymous writing is ridiculous!!

      Delete
    6. @Susanne
      As long as you play with Becht's balls that ain't gonna happen and you know that. Why don't you tell us instead how have you (and Heidi Viborg) just recently become members of his Landesgruppe? One ball per each?

      Delete
    7. The truth is the same, even if people are named or not. Nothing can change this. When you people call out for names, it is only to satisfy your own curiousity of who knows what so that you can start your own vendetta. This blog is not for this. It is for getting the TRUTH out there so that the common dobermann owner can see the whole picture and take a stand from there.

      Delete
    8. You can be right in the big picture mr. anonymous, but in this case there is a person who addresses me by name and ask me a question about my dog - I think that this person should come forward with his name. This has nothing to do with the great cause to do! Now it's just me you go for!

      Delete
    9. And which dog is that, Miss Skov?

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    10. @susanne: Maybe it is you they "go for" in this case - but you should know that it is for getting the truth out. I googled you and your dog - is this your webpage?
      http://www.elcaminas.dk/velkommen
      Then if you are a breeder, you should know that we need the TRUTH! Not one person`s version of it, but the whole truth. I don`t think people`s intensions are to "attack" you in any way, but people read and write here because they love their dogs and the breed, and we do not want it anymore destroyed by breeders,owners and judges sailing under false flags, pretending to be something they are not. Surely as a breeder you can understand this?

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  63. Yes, 2 whole puppies in Stay In Style kennel..lol !
    Probably only the one is as great as his father..just look at DR site. LMAO

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    Replies
    1. ?? What litter do you mean?

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  64. http://www.izrafel.com/puppies/puppies.php


    This is one litter. Stay In Style does NOT have puppies from this dog. Here just 2 puppies born.

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  65. DR. IZRAFEL. they need plenty of water and soap http://www.izrafel.com/puppies/puppies.php

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  66. What is problem whith this litter

    http://dobergaarden.dk/k-litter_dk.html

    And this litter

    http://dobergaarden.dk/j-litter_dk.html

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    Replies
    1. No problem. Cheap solution for the breeder. Supersmart!Just warn the puppy buyers that none of parents are checked for EYE dicease,and DCM DNA test for the female? Cardio? EKG? HOLTER?

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    2. "Impressive" results of Tinkerbel Di Altobello
      HEALTH

      HD B

      AA 0

      vWD-free

      TITLES

      Stuttgard Germany D. 3.10 .2010
      Judge T. Becht
      EX2
      Black female open class

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    3. So beeing nr 2 in a class at one show is a TITLE now?!?
      WOW...truly a top quality breeding.

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  67. So whats the point here? We all know now such results can be deceiving, and especially if any judging by Becht! Fact is Athos is political decision, for some reasons. And Heidi is protected by some IDC people. At least.. she bred something better than the shits from Vom Bavaria.

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  68. Why are you asking the reason why Athos won ?! I do not know why it's not obvious : no Italian Pezzano's friend or Citone male nor Nemesis or other german dog, friend of DV leadership were competing. So it was best to go in Denmark the title. If we have had some dog from Antarctica , maybe he would be the winner. But in any case not to somebody who is not an obedient breeder !

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    Replies
    1. Few are asking why this dog won. All are too busy laughing about it, because the politics and games behind the scene are too clear. The breeder is proper loyal,the pedigree is not too oposing for IDC judges, after all - they need to keep the trend going,and before mentioned breeder has used ale alamos twice and hilo so far once. Properly loyal.

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    2. Using 2 Citone is the way to big succeses, using more will lead to have 9 dogs in final like Perlanera. Or needs also other things ? :)

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    3. Like to be "different" ?

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    4. Aaah...yes - a tip to this breeder - use the GREAT ORSON for next Nemesis connection - guaranteed more dogs to IDC finals! And guaranteed even worse croups,heads and temperament.

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  69. I'd like to ask the great IDC SIEGER FOR A CHALLENGE : come to Hungary at IDC WM, not to compete , just to show everybody with working dogs the part C from IPO 1, I can arrange this to happen, it is not a big problem, but I'd like to see Ale ALAMOS, ANDRES, ZORDAN ALSO. Aiad 2010 didn't convince me at all regarding Ale and Andres.

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  70. Good idea. But i would bee pleased to see Athos in any danish competition.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That is a sight you will never get to see, unless it is at their private field,evening trial not advertised anywhere and with that friendly judge of theirs..
      -maybe you can get to see a video again, of his IPO2? LOOOL

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  71. I sit here and becoming more and more irritated. I had plans to go to IDC this year with two of my dogs, for the very first time and I have gone and looking forward to this so much, but I can see now that I as a small breeder does not have an earthly chance of getting a fairly judgement.
    I does not expect my dogs to be IDC siegers, but when non of my dogs has any of the above names in there pedigree, then they haven´t got a chance.
    So Can you tell me why I should go to IDC and spend money on travel, hotel to be thrown out of the ring as the first??

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    Replies
    1. The only thing you provide to the IDC as a small breeder, not having their dogs in pedigree,or having had kissed the right arse, is provide them with money.
      Sorry. That is the truth.

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    2. I think it is sad and diffently not fair for anyone els but them self, I hope the buyers will see it soon, or els it is up to breeders to warn them by telling this stories online and so on.

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    3. My friend, you go to the shows now for meeting other people, breeders, to see nice dogs, and enjoy the food, wine and good times. Forget to win trophies or titles, they are meaningless now. Think more for enjoying shows in your own club or country or all breed shows. Enjoy to travel with your dog and meet other dog lovers.

      As for the IDC show itself - come and see what the judges do and how they corrupt themselves. And shout and jeer and make noises. Show them you do not approve. Dont lose faith, one day some of these old men will die and there will be some changes. Slowly and surely, things will change. This is the way to move ahead, when now people everywhere can think better and see with more open eyes. Good luck!

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    4. Yes the IDC is a nice social event but not much worth to the breed or the members when it comes to getting value for money. The only ones profiting or should say profiteering is Wiblishauser and his circle and what is left over for the rest is more "circus" than "bread".

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  72. It makes me sick I am so tired of this shit in the dobermann world.

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    Replies
    1. Take another breed - this one is kaputt.

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  73. how are you warriors nameless look like poodles. I wonder if you have Dobermann. if you have, Dobermann, are coward that masters.

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    Replies
    1. I wonder if you are as tough RL Florin. Or maybe as german sherperd - bark like crazy, but only dares to bite when people turn their back.

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  74. try and see (anonymous). What comics are you. I can not stop laughing ......... russia. Finland, Germany, Italy, romania, slovenia, serbia. ha ha ha ha ha

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  75. Anonymous = Hookers old. who put their mask when they are fucked in the ass. ha ha ha ha ha. Are you afraid that if someone sees face them dies dick. ha ha ha ha

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  76. Florin, you are rude. You are insulting people who are trying to say their opinion on this blog. Just because they are not writing their names is not because they are cowards. But they have to loose, at this moment nothing is clear if a big number of breeders will fight or not against what is happening in shows and they can succeed to obtain a democratic and good change to a fair IDC shows. But do not forget ever Mr. Kollenberg, Vogel, what they happened when they rised their voices against DV. Maybe some people at this moment do not want to renounce to breed dobermanns. You know very well what can make a dictatorial leader, it's not too long time from 1989. Look at Maerkishen Land, he is also hunted in Germany and also others were. At this moment to say your name on this blog is equivalent to renounce to a lot of club shows and not only IDC, DV has a great influence at this moment on a lot of dobermann clubs. If DV says that x or y must be banned from z country's club show, believe me it will happen, like serbians there throwed out from IDC even HDK was the organizer and they kissed the ass of DVand Pezzano and they made the will of DV and AIAD. You, from Canada can talk, but please come to IDC and you will see what will happen with you even you will have the best dog from show ! At this time nothing is coagulated, it's just a barking to the moon. And if this will not be coagulated in a protest , big as possible at IDC show, nothing will happen !

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    Replies
    1. those of us who have participated in some revolution of 89, I had no fear in front of the bullet. And you will be afraid of IDC. I can not understand this

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    2. You are basically right Florin, but let me try to make a difference. Back than you had little to lose, it was either you or him (Nicolae), and now with this situation many have a lot to lose, mainly decades of hard work. I also wish for Dobermann people to stand up and resist, but we all have been under tyranny for too long to see the light at the end of the tunnel so perhaps the Insider is a rare chance to unite us all and have the things rolled towards better times.

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    3. No, we are not afraid of IDC, nor DV nor AIAD. But what some are afraid is : if their name will be known they have to renounce to breed dobermanns because they will be throwed out from shows, their puppies will not get pedigrees. It isn't any law which protect them to go in court trial to defend their rights. Breeding is not under any legislation, just FCI rules and kennel club or breed clubs rules.

      Delete
  77. And these rules are so made that judges are protected but exposants not

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  78. will understand. you must understand that life is not easy. in 89 I could lose my life, I was lucky. with dictators is not talking. is fighting you or them. I stay away from those of Europe I do not like bullshit small guys who have seized the bone and do not let them escape. they are tyrants who had no professional satisfaction in life. I pee on them

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    Replies
    1. That's the spirit!

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    2. Yes Florin! They are tyranns, and that is why this blog is so good! It allowes us to speak our mind for the world to see, and avoid at the same time to loose it all. If it comes down to fighting for our life,I guess neither one of us would back of, but that is another and more honest fight. This fight here is not honest, the people from IDC are dirty liars with many tricks up their sleeve, so we have to fight them the way that will hurt them the most. We cannot wait for the old ones to die first, because they already are making new people in their own image! This blog is just the start - soon many more people will see the truth, and be less afraid to speak up. Then, and only then we can stand united against this tyranny. But we HAVE to stand TOGHETHER. Not start even more fights amonst us, by cruel words of cowardness. We have to see the bigger picture, and that is the future of our breed.You have many wise words Florin, but please understand also this way of fighting.

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  79. You are so right ! Only fighting together we can change the odd situation which is now !

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  80. Lene Andersen, DenmarkFebruary 1, 2012 at 10:56 PM

    This side is a joke. You say that you just want to say your opinions. HA HA that makes me really laugh. This is just a side where you all throw mud at everbody and then as anonymus. And this is not a way of fighting, this is mean gossip, thats all. Come on, show your color, if you dear. Whats wrong about being a member of a german club because you are living in Denmark? I am a member of a german club also, so i am like Heidi Viborg and Susanne Skov also ???, I dont think that any of us are controled by anyone. I just happens to like Dobermanns,its my hobby, and in my life i have never heard so much nonsens and evil talk, its makes me wonder......

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Don't you have your own club in Denmark?

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    2. Lene, jus a question for you : what is the reason to be a member for such a nondemocratic club like DV or AIAD if you have your own club in your country ? In my opinion reason is to be closer to fire and have a chance to win. If you do not mind it is not a very big honour to be in a club which between firsts lost without fight the war against ban of cropping , this beeing a great disaster in Germany and the result of this non fighting was spread like a virus in other countries like your country also, the disaster beeing expanded .

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    3. Lene, nobody really cares what you do, as you are not the one sleeping with the bosses to get your awards. We rather know what goes on inside the IDC, wrere a dog like Athos can be Sieger, and coincidentally the owners join German club. How come they cannot even do or compete the dog's IPO in Denmark? They know the truth of that dog is aware of all in Denmark. You are so naive Lene, your comments give us a laugh, especially here in Scandinavia.

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    4. Lene, please go somewhere else with that unjust indignation of yours. And stop beeing a pond in Dobergaarden kennels game! Athos is a terrible dog, that ONLY WINS at "special" shows - put him in a INT CACIB show with a judge that is not prepayed - what does he get? a VG. Go look into Danish Dogweb, and you can see this clearly repeated..
      This is the MOST undeserving IDC Sieger of all times - make no mistake about it. The only black Sieger just as crap is Hilo. So get your face out of that ass it`s in, and go play soemwhere else. For your own sake, before you are in their game too deep. Just a good advice.

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    5. Lene, please be better then this in your statments.."This is just a side where you all throw mud at everbody and then as anonymus. And this is not a way of fighting, this is mean gossip, thats all. Come on, show your color, if you dear. Whats wrong about being a member of a german club because you are living in Denmark? I am a member of a german club also, so i am like Heidi Viborg and Susanne Skov also ???"
      There is no mudthrowing-there is people telling the truth finally daring to speak their mind! And if your good friend Mrs Lundahl of Dobergaarden kennel had kept her path clean, there would be no tread about her A litter dog. There is nothing you can say other then beeing "mad" about the anonymus way people sign in as, and I completely understand why they do so. Try and tell the truth - even just in a small country like denmark, you will find yourself in the deepest coldest place, as long as you have a dobermann. And what is wrong with beeing a member of a german club, you ask? Nothing - if you are there to TRAIN YOUR DOG and not to suck the presidents dick to get more trophies, and guarantees for DV/VDH championships!!!!!!! I feel sorry for those trying to go in workingclass with Athos under any of the mentioned judges here,hoping that all the mudthrowing as you say it is, is false. They will learn otherwise - that it will be a joke, and I hope they decide to save their money! And you also ask if you are anything like Heidi & Susanne? Well...for your own sake I hope not. But I am beginning to wonder if you want to be like them more than anything, as you see them in a obviously glorified light of "sucsess". Just remember that the higher you climb, the deeper you fall. Especially if the latter is buildt of lies and deception like theirs.

      Delete
  81. Lene Andersen, DenmarkFebruary 2, 2012 at 8:40 PM

    Since you all know so much about the "right" dobermann, then where are your perfect dobs and why are´nt you a dobermann judge,or become one, if you are so good and know whats right and wrong. You write that we all can write our opinions, thats what i do, sorry you dont like it. And i am not in anybodys game just because i know Kennel Dobergaarden or the others in our club. And i am a member of Danish Dobermann club and then what???. Why do you start talking about Athos, i dident mention him in my writing ???? So if my dog wins something then i will be written about also, uhhh i cant wait for the next episode of Dobermann insider. Stop giving me advice about anybody i talk to. I know my true friends. Naive maybe....but someone must have a boring life....

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    Replies
    1. Why do you automaticly regard us writing here as supid? Because we speak our mind and have a different opinion about how a true dobermann should look like¨? Because unlike you and owner of Athos, the rest of us wants some true DRIVE in our dog, to behave a proper dobermenn? As I said - get out of that arse yourè in ASAP and go see the world with your own eyes before it is too late - still just meant as an advise. And if your dog (whoever this dog is) wins something one day, then be happy if it wins in true and HONEST competition against others! I am sure people here will chear for you. What you are calling stupid and idiotic are thousands of people finally speakin up against tyranny! And if you do not want Athos mentioned, then don`t write in the tread of greatest IDC mock up Siegers...

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  82. Dobergaarden Kennel owner, looks like a horse, who knows maybe well fuck Wiby. Atos dog is a disaster. not really look the Dobermann. I had to suck many cocks as her pet Atos be IDC

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  83. Lene, why are you seeing us stupids ? As you are writing on this topic, topic which is dedicated to the poorest IDC Sieger from last time (together from Hilo which won in Sweden) , saying "whay do you start talking about Athos, I didn't mention him" together with "this side is a joke.You say you just want to say your opinions.Ha Ha Ha....this is just a site where you all through mud" +(what a concidence :you are from Denmark, you are DV member), you are offenced when we are askinkg you :why you deffend in this way a bad IDC political decision ?!! You are asking us if we are judges or not. ASK ALL FROM IDC HUNGARY what is their opinion regardioong Athos and you will be not happy. Or maybe all of us are stupids and do not know which is a really IDC Sieger and not a joke of this title. If you are not knowing enough the breed to see at a glance what dobermann is better, try to read at least the dobermann standard and you will see that a pink lip will not qualify at all a dobe for IDC title even he would have been allone as black male. I know that Denmark is not favorised as position to go and see enough good dobermanns in reality, but to read the standard you can even in your home.

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    Replies
    1. Pink lips - had it only been that with the dog...but also bad croup,terrible front assembly and poor movement. A proper judge would give this dog a flat EX at the MOST. Certainly more likely to get only VG rating. And that is just his looks. The temper of the dog I will not start with...too sad to talk about. Almost as sad as to know Orson will be sieger in 12 or 13..

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  84. What do you think about this IDC Youth Sieger 2010 Obi Van Kenobi de Grande Vinko IPO test 81 - 92 - 87 http://www.betelges.net/ourdogs/Obi.htm

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. OMG - is this for real??!!

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    2. I would be laughing if it was not so sad.

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    3. Money talks here too! What a shame!

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  85. Obi Van Kenobi de Grande Vinko IPO test 81-92 - 87. congratulations. Slobodan always had good eyes for Dobermann.

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  86. I have nothing to do with this dog Athos, dont know the dog, the breeder and the owner. I just wonder why you people here talk so much, bad and loud about this video with Athos and keeps your mouth closed about Obi Wan. What is the difference between the two videos - it is the same trainer, the same judge and the same figurant. To me everything looks the same. Or is it because of the breeder and owner of Obi you keep your mouths shut??

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We only look at the test wich obiusly is fake tests. The judge has been bought by the handler to let the dog pass, in both videos. If the dog can not pass a test honest,it should not have that test!

      Delete
  87. anonymous. your mother bore you idiot. if you want to insult me write his name. haha. because I want to send you flowers. (C------y)

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  88. Perhaps because the owner of this blog, and the breeder of Obi Wan is the same person !!!!!!

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  89. Go figure....and good luck selling those! Poor puppy buyers..

    http://www.erebusdobermanns.com/home.html

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  90. Why not write about OBI ?Maybe because he wasn't an IDC Sieger without deserving that title, because OBI wasn't an IDC Sieger as Athos was !

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  91. Obi won only at youth class, (9-18 months) IPO 1 is after 18 months, so to confirm a youth IDC Sieger title is in no conection with IPO, but IDC Sieger, the best dobermann male black from IDC I think that it should have something in conection with ability of passing a fair IPO exam. If the dobermanns are stil in group 2, guarding and defense dogs...

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  92. I would say that Oby's working abilities are as same as Athos' :) Funny dogs, good for couch!

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  93. again guys you work with monkeys. I advise you to buy Doberman .. remember what you did Pyppi DI CASA GIARDINO . to work championatul IDC 2011.

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  94. you ended topics? see it was only a straw fire, by the way you know who is behind this Blaga. I know .. I wish nult success. I hope that the future of IDC to venice without panties. bosses will be easier to fuck you. ha ha ha ha

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    Replies
    1. So it was you Florin, all along.

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    2. Florin you Shakespeare, took us all for a ride with his faux English comments, while writing this Blog in superb style. Hats off, Florin!!!

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  95. my part I am not interested in politics IDC. Ask those who know me if I am dretatit us in the ring, adjust the problem immediately. Judge out on a stretcher in the ring, because I am particularly honorable and balls. I will not stab someone in the back. not be one, as you cowards. I'm not afraid of anyone and anything in the world, not involved in this Blaga. My name is Florin Niculescu, and if I have something to say, not say hiding behind a fictitious name. how do you bitches without shame. learn to be like me and you will succeed in life, say that think for that rats not be hidden in the underground gallery. learn to be proud of you.

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  96. About Obi Wan,
    That trial is a shame. A shame to all of those who work proper with their dogs and compete, not only once. Its à shame to his brother Oksamit, who are worked proper and with nicer result too.
    There are à lot of great dogs in our dobermann world, who makes showtitles, iDC titles, and work great, on high level. People need to look further than some poor dogs winning idc titles from time to time. There is great exempels too. But dont let the politics get to you, its ashame too, but dont accept and join.

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  97. Oksamit is trained by his owner,and he is greatly superiour to his brother Obi. Had not obi had a famous owner,nobody would have known the dog existed. Also other brother in Ukraine is far better then Obi.
    With regards to comment here about Athos and mating in Erebus kennel-this just goes to show that some kennels do give a rats arse about the dogs - they just go for titles. But the good thing is that people can keep away from them easyer now!! All people know how crap Athos is - he is a shame to his father and the breed in general - and buying a puppy from athos will show surely that owner does not care about the breed. Easely.

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  98. Orson von Nemesis IPO 1 280 points

    I would REALLY like to see the video of that score! This is averagely higher than many well known working dogs on trials and they have been hardly working for years to achieve as high results, while Orson has spent no more than several months in training!

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  99. Orson? Many people know he is typical Nemesis character, basically like Athos but not as bad. It is near impossible that dog can get such points in IPO in a real and fair trial. That rounded skulled and poodle character dog will never compete in a real IPO trial with other real dogs. Fact. Its just a way to justify his next few wins, maybe as World Winner of IDC Sieger [ if its not Pezzano's year ]

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  100. Alamos will win forthcoming World Show. The deal is already being made.
    Orson will enter Working Class at IDC and if he doesn't win Dante will...but who cares really?

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  101. I don't care about this!
    I will go training with my Dob, because I can spent my time better than travelling a lot and before departure being informed about the winners. And the money, that I will economize will be spend for a lot of bondes and toy for my dogs....

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  102. I wonder what explanations Mr Zoosfery is telling himself and his poor puppy buyers theese days...?
    Breeding with athos, what have you hoped to achieve,other then credentials from those false people ruling the IDC?
    did you use him for his great exterior? I that caes, I`m sorry...-you need to put the right glasses on and see the terrible rounded head,pink lips,bad croup and terrible front assembly.
    did you try for working skills maybe?
    Ooooh..I have to disapoint you again..here is no working skills -neither a good grip on the sleeve,defence,prey or hunting abilities lies in the dog -neither on the video you surely must have seen,or at the trainings for the people who sees this dog live.
    was it maybe then for his outstanding mentality? for his great mental tests? Ohh...wait again...-sorry, but one ZTP with Moneygrabbing Becht is not really what does the breed any better...this is a dog that has NO mentaltests whatsoever. No MH,KORAD,MT or even the smallest charaktertest has this dog been trough..
    so please Mr Zoosfery - tell us why you went from beeing a highly respected dobermann breeder,with imports susch as Mo de Stang-Su, and your own Nestor, Vivien, Zheneva,Euro Diesel and others to mention? where did you sell out? Was it really after all theese years so lightly just to take the quick fix?
    All respect is gone...
    Vaya con dios...you will need it. And the breed.

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  103. This comment has been removed by the author.

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