Monday, October 7, 2013

When Spanish sleep with Germans


DOBERMANN CLUB DE ESPANA

WHERE INCEST IS NORMAL !




OR -

"Anything Goes When You Are Germany's Hoes [ Whores]"

It has come to our attention, that some very unethical and dangerous breeding has been going on in Spain.

Mothers mated to Sons. Brothers and sisters mated together. 

And what is more worrying, is the kennel which does this.. is owned by theVice President of the Spanish Dobermann Club. A best friend of the DV gang too...

This is a prime exampe, of where, if your club fully support the DV and kisses their ass with full lips.. you are given licence to do anything you wish, even if it is dangerous and wrong for the breed.

Consider, what is going on now in Serbia and other clubs where there is some dissent and opposition to the DV's fists and boots.. When any breeder or exhibitor does something 'wrong or 'different' to the DV desires - the Club comes under attack, members are harassed and the IDC starts investigations and complaints.

But when the club does no trouble for DV, and is extremely obedient, the leadershp can do as they please, with no sanctions...

It seems that changing the breed standard and Becht's vanity is more important than giving a care of the breed's genetics, health and breeding practices.

Now, let us see the evidence here -


First, the owner and breeder responsible for this is 
Mr JUAN CARLOS MENÉNDEZ GARCÍA, VICE PRESIDENT of the club....


Now see carefully the pedigree of these litters -





YES, CORRECT IF YOU HAVE OBSERVED CAREFULLY -

SON MATED TO MOTHER
BROTHER TO SISTER

AND DANAFOX IS PROUD OF THIS.....

So, we ask - Where is the IDC and DV in such matters? Where is the discussion of inbreeding this close, of using INCEST in breeding? Why is this not an issue at all, but instead, the position and birthday of some old man was far more important to the DV/IDC? Where is Dottore's opinion and scientific expression on this? Why not an issue of this, instead of pedigree microchips, and other stupid things like a Loyalty Liste?

If you would like to learn more of the dangers of such breeding, for the health of a breed, please read this as an example study -


At least, other breed organizations have the balls and guts to tackle such issues, which have an impact on the breed future. In fact, when was the last time there was any real concern for our breed's genetic pool, health issues and future? All the DV and IDC cares of now is their 'President' and precious fundings....

If the vice president of a national breed club is given licence to breed as he pleases, what more can we say of those who keep silent and hace their asses licked?

If you are an ethical and correct Spanish breeder, you must feel SHAME for this and how the Dobermann Club of Spain can promotes this type of breeding, when the club is supposed to be protecting the breed Dobermann as preventing genetic degeneration..


You Be The Judge!


66 comments:

  1. Say no more. The end of the breed.

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  2. What about Doctor PIZZ and his many incest breedings that has helped to
    destroy the breed????????????

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  3. but no. only care about the tails and ears cut off.
    then there are dogs that die like flies dcm does not matter ... only because they are afraid of losing sales by cutting the tail and ears. health matters
    thanks to many large pedigrees are now more consanguineous among all breeds of dogs. the Doberman is definitely the number one consaguinetà. other than extinction tail and ears, will die because they will die more and more young dogs.

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  4. The inbreeding is not for everibody and for sure is not for persons without mimal genetical knowledges , nor for ill bloodlines . The incest practices contributed to actual genepool limitation and increase the illneses apparition .
    The inbreeding have his positive role , keep the vertebral column of a bloodline but must be used carefully , to know to recognise consanguinity depression and prevent that . The consanguinity was the breeding way of great kennels as Furstenfeld , but he keept correct type and genetic and health . Some time is more dangerouse the outcross if use ill bloodlines because will bring wrong genetic . But in sctual race genepool limitations and ilnesses the inbreeding and incest is destructive .

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  5. http://worldobreeders.com/?p=411

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  6. mr Pez http://www.dobermannpedigrees.nl/modules/pedigree/dog.php?id=162 see how many sons and daughter are died of cardio........and a stong inbreed ofn him causes only bad things and for sure Mr Palmer was a crazy man, my last bitch v Furstenfeld died of wobbler + v willebrand and sponlilosis....really safe v furstenfeld is shit as all the others, I've knew him personally and he was a crazy, stupid man, and the 100 per cent of his pedigree where fake! He told it a evening when he was drunk! Do not speak if you haven't knowing him personally!

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  7. ortunately for the world, you exist , ALLELUIA!!!!!

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  8. fortunately for the world, you exist , ALLELUIA!!!!!

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  9. Tell us, how many important dogs has generated your BIG Kennel, STUPID PERSON!!!!

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  10. Can you inform us your Furstenfeld female pedigree died by wobbler ?
    I bet that it is not a pure a Furstenfeld one.
    About rest of accousations is stupid to talk in this mode without evidances.

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  11. she was a pure v Furstenfeld female, her inbreed was ridicolous, and she isn't in any database she was born in 1975, and died at 5.. After her dead I was destroyed and for more 5 years I never take a dobermann. After I've take a dutch male that live 11 years, in 1998 I've take the first rescue and now I've a female take also from rescue, I'm old not stupid, Mr Palmer was a fake. Mrs Franquemont was better 100000 times and also Mrs Knijff. If you think that Mr Palmer was great, ok is your opinion, but I was at his home for a lot of time and he was a bad person, he give a lot fake pedigrees, believe me, the 100 per 100.He was only funny laught a lot with him.

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  12. if you have lived at the home of Palmer, tell us your name
    Lucky man

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  13. You are a ANONIM person which said that you had a Furtenfeld female but she is not in database....she have not a name..parents..nothing ...
    You said that Franquemont are 1000000 time more valorouse . But I ask you, do you know the name of most dominant bloodline frok today dobermanns ? I willr esponde for you : Frankenhorst . Not Furstenfeld.
    Then..why dobermann world is filled by death, bu cancer, by dcm, by torsions , by displasia abd wobbler ?
    Because your no name bitch died by wobbler ?
    The facke pedigrees ? I do not see any sense on this acousation , except the final moment of Furstenfeld breeding when this poor breeder was banned in Germany and his last litters was maded in another countries .
    I read that he don;t like alchool not the persons which drinked .
    I do not know that , maybe have no importance today , but I do not like a person which visit a house many time and after that talk in this mode .
    If I do not like a a person , I never visit him again .

    I knowed this bloodline many many years . and never I heard about Wobbler or other mnolosoidal ilnesses . The actual lines are FULLY by that !

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  14. And I think that if you have character , must to SIGN what you said with YOUR REAL NAME or..to keep YOUR MOUTH CLOSED and don;t say more shit .

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  15. For your info : unique Furstenfeld dobermann from my informastions which died by Wobbler was DANO V. FÜRSTENFELD . But he was not a pure Furstenfeld because his father ALADIN V. THANNHOF inbreeded in JAGO V. BEELEN and CHICO V. FORELL , same again and again ancestor of actual trend show dogs (fuly by wobbler) !

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  16. This is not the only example, Insider!!!

    Destiny's Phoenix from Romania made full littermates (H-brother x H-sister) mating also.

    Natalia Fokht mated son to mother (Midgard x Aurora)

    ...and so on, and so on.

    This just a sorrow preview of what is to be expected once the standard is changed, and not because of some smart-ass breeder, but because of lack of choice. Wake up people!

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  17. The incest tradition in Romania was maded long time before in Zamolxis kennel which filled the coutry with his incestuouse progeny . In Russia they practiced high level of inbreeding. The result is huge incidance of diszplasia , torsions , wobbler and HD which happened in that countries ..

    The problem is that today is no needed to make a incest , the genepool is soo reduced to same showdogs ,many of them died less than 8 years , the genetical backgroud is so similar then back by first 4-5 generations you can find only same dobermanns. That breeders don;t understood that they feld into their own trap and killed dobermann breed health .

    And for theses breeders still is not sufficient . Probable they want to remain unique in world. Unique shit.

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  18. This litters for example:
    http://www.tera-line.narod.ru/eng/litters/t_10.htm

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=422947054387446&set=t.100000582877110&type=3&theater

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  19. Alin you are a poor boy! If They told you that mr Palmer was a fake is true, I.was near him a lot of time, he was a fanatic and a lot of his dog pedigree was a fake!!

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  20. Why you don't sign your post old man ?
    I do not knowed him as a person but all know that his breeding is on base of all today dobermanns . His bloodline constructed 50% from race genepool , is a fact not fake . I do not see what needed can have a breeder to facke a pedigree in normal breeding conditions. Or maybe conditions was not normal...
    I don;t know what he did but for sure his bloodline in combination with Eastern lines , lived till 17 years in my country .
    Point,

    W.A.

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  21. Sando Sara Simon and Senna died of wobbler born 1975 died in 1980 Sando and Sara in 1981 Simon and 1982 Senna.

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  22. I am not so sure about what you said . Everyone can said everything .
    Be carefully , you contest the base of dobermann : ALEX V. KLEINWALDHEIM

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  23. You can be sure of what you want, but this is the truth!!

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  24. how many of you hypocrites throwing with shit in other breeders have Gino Gomez in your dog's pedigree? And how many of you even inbreeded on him??

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  25. And what do you sugest ? the inbreeding on Great-Danes and their ills ?

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  26. now we no longer know which line is clean. there are lines that have had cases of dcm, by prinz to ginogomez to victor vito del diamante nero to tigr grandfhater of fedor...
    you do not know where to go for shelter!

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  27. Did you mean victor Vito del rio bianco?
    And what about Moro del diamante Nero?he died at the age of 7.Anyone knows couse of death?

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  28. All the lines are sick, We need only a lot of outcross, and crossfingers.....no more

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  29. inform you, that Moro died for intestinal torsion

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  30. Yes, unfortunaltely all the lines are or carry ilnesses . Almost norhing remained, is a desaster .
    The peoples which maked that situation must to pay legal , for cruelly against animals !
    Their sistem must be complettly demolish

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  31. Please, cut the long story short. Stop bullshitting about Gino and others. If there was not Gino, today dobies will be just timid pupps. He gave great character to his ancestors. About ilness, every breed have it, and pure bred dogs are menmade, all of them, so mistakes were going through the all line, from the begginning. You can se, for example, in litters from dcm clear parents, half puppies are dcm free, half is not (mostly hetherozigote), so there is no "pure" line. "Pure" lines are marketing tricks for those who can not show their dogs, nor work with them.

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  32. I agree.
    Peoples which acoused Gino don't see the problems from their lines , especial bad CHARACTER , CANCER , DISPLAZIA , TORSIONS , MOLOSOIDS and WOBBLER !
    Gino was a great dog , his problem is named EBO GROTE MAT , a dog with same genetic with all the rest which filled dobermann breed with ilnesses .

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  33. gino has brought beautiful things. but you can not pair a dead mother brother sister to 5 years!!
    victor vito white of the rio died young, and I know of children who died of heart.
    no lines now is secure. I just hope in a test as soon as possible. hopefully begin to use less always the same blood. you have to open. but farmers are too arrogant to understand

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  34. "Please, cut the long story short. Stop bullshitting about Gino and others. If there was not Gino, today dobies will be just timid pupps. "

    THIS CAN'T BE MORE TRUE!!!

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  35. I bet 9 out 10 "experts" here have not more than elementary school, let alone PhD in genetics. So shut your fucking mouth and keep walking. Gino haters would sell their mothers (and kids too) to have such divine dog.

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  36. Gino ascendance is great , except Ebo which infected this great bloodline and have same genetic with all actual showlines.
    Gino imprim excelent character to his descendance , lovable pups with nonmolosoid character , with beautiful eyes , beautiful and fine shapes hrads .
    The problem of dobermann breed is not Gino but Ebo all around present genetic

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  37. The problem of Dobermann breed is the wasted years of Hans Wiblishauser. Nothing good was done for the breed and now the result is a dog like Orson is Sieger, and the gene pool is smaller, the breed stadard changed and club officials breeding incest. Blame the DV leadership ever since Hans is there.
    His death will be also the same death as our breed, because of him.

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  38. Agree !
    This breeding system must be changed deep, from his roots , not only at surface as some leaders of new WDB said .

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  39. I look at Ebo as being just another victim not the culprit. Health problems started long before Ebo was whelped. Sorry to say that you can not point the finger at one Dobermann.

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  40. Sure, Ebo the ill genetic was not maded by Ebo himself, was maded by his ancestors . He was only a source of infection . But thereare many other sources . Because EBO genetic is the SAME !
    This genetic was promoted at HIGH LEVEL til infected and destroyed entire race genepool which bassicaly was a longevive and healtly one .

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  41. Inbreeding between siblings is prohibited by FCI regulations/2010 point 3.

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  42. It was too late years ago.......

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  43. How did Pathos die?

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  44. We will never know the truth , why .

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  45. With his bloodline, or wobbler or cardio!!!

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  46. Stupid man, you're talking about a dog that was 9 years

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  47. 9 years is a performance for showlines.

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  48. "AnonymousOctober 29, 2013 at 2:11 AM

    Stupid man, you're talking about a dog that was 9 years "

    Yes he was a whole 1 year in veteran age !!! I think we have to ask FCI to change veteran class age for dobermanns : to be 5 . Because many are dying at 6 so to arrive to be showed in veteran class

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  49. "AnonymousOctober 29, 2013 at 8:10 PM

    9 years is a performance for showlines."

    9 years is a performance also for working lines in last years

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  50. Yes he was a whole 1 year in veteran age !!! I think we have to ask FCI to change veteran class age for dobermanns : to be 5 . Because many are dying at 6 so to arrive to be showed in veteran class



    AMEN.
    With a dog like that, used so much there should be an autopsy done and an official statement. Preferably an honest one, but obviously the big breeders needs to take babysteps as they dont want to fall too hard on their arses.
    I think many people cry of the change in age for veteran class - it used to be 7..haha

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  51. Odin v forell, Chico v forell,don dayan v franckenhorst, berenike v nymphenburg,Julia v nymphenburg-all died of DCM-is this true?

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  52. If this is true-we are in big trouble.All these dogs are almost in every pedigree by now.

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  53. WAW ! Genial !
    Finnaly you saw the tip of the iceberg !
    When you will see how BIG is the entire iceberg , you will be shoked !

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  54. ...but better late than never

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  55. And yes, the impossible problem is that dogs and many many others from same family . multiplied by hundredth and hundredths of times , construct today majority dobermann race genepool and is impossible to change that ! The dobermann race average age is egual with that ancestors average age !

    ODIN V FORELL 6 years
    OLIVE OF BAMBY'S PRIDE 8 years
    DON DAYAN V FRANCKENHORST 8
    EBO V.D. GROOTE MAAT 6
    VIVRE VIVIEN V FRANCKENHORST 6
    KARMEL KESIA V. DIASPORA 7
    ALVA V FRANCKENHORST 8
    LUCIFER V ROVELINE 5
    UGOR DI VILLA CONTE 5
    HELLA V. FORELL 8
    ALDO V. FERROLHEIM 8
    VITESSE V FRANCKENHORST 8
    etc.

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  56. Than it's GAME OVER!We don't have DCM free line anymore...Even diamante Nero dogs are corrupted with this (ironically from beginning through Berenike/ Julia v nymphenburg) and later with input from Rio bianco (Hertog alpha,roveline.etc)Last healthy line was furstenfeld and this is now history.

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  57. Only Eastern dobermanns was extremly longevive . Today exist voices of old eastern breeders said that these lines are present in Eastern space from 1900 years .They presented some evidances regarding that (pictures and old pedigree). That early years mean the begining of dobermann race. This original blood stock .remained in variouse Eastern countries as Poland, Czech , Hungaria , Romania, Russia fill 1990 years when all was destroyed by actual showlines .breeders and judges geniality , no matter that they lived 17 years and easy can touched 13-15 years.
    This is the ugly truth . regarding destruction of original dobermann lines ,

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  58. This list is full of shit like Lucifer was driven over by a car. On another list there was also Arrow vom Harro's Berg 5 years but he was put to sleep for the rest the list is not 100 procent certainty.

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  59. Arrow Harrowsberg ancestors are exactly the dogs from the list , which died youngs .
    Some voices said that Arrow was put to sleep because his extreme agresivity .
    To put to sleep a dog must to have a seriouse reason. Or not ?

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  60. If anyone mentions OLD lines one more time I am going to kill him!!! Grow up already!!!

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  61. Then see the NEW lines !

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFfK1Zla1b8

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  62. I have a black female - she is looking very good. I am going to mate her soon. I want a male that gives good underjaw and good tailset, because these two pionts are not bad on my female, but I want a male that breeds strong especially these two pionts. She has a good drive charakter and I want to keep this for the puppies. And off cource all health informations. I want a male out of show-lines. Any surgesting for a male?

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  63. The most idiotic thing is separating show-lines from working- lines! Doberman is beautiful dog who must work. If any of that missing it is not true dobermann. People whos dobermann is not anatomicly very nice, speak of working line, also, if that dog can not work, they spea about health. Let's be honest. All 3 things is needed for a good dog. So forget about old lines and working lines. You have internet ful of videos of various males, and take a look.Show dogs which doesnot work - it is because of bad character or breeders are too lazy to work.

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  64. "This is not the only example, Insider!!!

    Destiny's Phoenix from Romania made full littermates (H-brother x H-sister) mating also."

    This is NOT correct!

    The full litter mate mating of two Destiny Phoenix dogs was NOT at the Destiny Phoenix kennel in Romania. Although one can understand why people might think that this is the case.

    The breeder of this litter was Sandrine Hamel of Devil Inside Kennel, France

    http://www.dobermannpedigrees.nl/modules/pedigree/dog.php?id=235808

    At the time of the mating, High Voltage was in France being trained for ZTP and her papers were in the possession of Devil Inside Kennel which is why the mating happened.

    After returning to Romania High Voltage had a litter for Destiny Phoenix but the sire was Oksamit and it is their "i" litter.

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  65. Gino Gomez Del Citone was born from another brother sister mating looked what he added to the breed, its discusting that these marings are being allowed and registered, I wonder if they would be ok with there own children doing such things as mating each other!!!

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