Licking ass for results..
Or..
"Business as usual"
First the Korung gets corrupted and meaningless... and now even more so than before, the ZTP has again proven to be full of nonsense and dependent on who you know, how much you pay and what you can offer...
Do you remember this dog here, who made attack on judge at IDC, and then was disqualified?
Yes, the same dog who FAILED his first ZTP in Moscow 2012, and is known for such character issues..
 |
| "Oh so sorry.. he only does that if you attack him... really... i dont lie..." |
Do you also remember this dog, who bit and sent to hospital his handler, owner and others.. and has a history of over aggression and biting people for no reason?
 |
| Junior when not attacking someone |
 |
| One of his masterpiece, attacking a woman all over |
Now, let us ask.. what do both of these dogs have in common??
ZTP 1 A
Yes, this is correct, both dogs are qualified and rated as ZTP 1A. The highest standard and qualification for the breeding and character test of the Dobermann breed.
Who were their expert ZTP judges?
For Sirio :
As usual, the Dogfather himself and best friend of Aldo - Dottore. Can you imagine anyone lse judging and controlling the ZTP in Italy, or even passing it without the correct connections and favours?..
For Urwan:
Our dear old friend, Mr Breed Warden Daube. Yes, the brilliant highly qualified breeder, trainer, helper and... ok, we got no idea what else he claims to be...
WHY WE SHOW THESE TWO? SIMPLE.....
FROM THE PAST TO THE PRESENT... AND POSSIBLY FUTURE.... THE SAME SHAME ON THE BREED.
These are not the only examples of what or who the ZTP is for today. How many times we have heard of dogs with false Hip scores.. or the dog in Denmark with white marking.. or the dog with laid back ears and nervous in the field,.. or the dog who did not pass the BH... or the dog which runs off.. or the dog which tries to attack the participants.. or the over sized dog... or the dog which failed before...
And all of them passing the ZTP with good grades.. because....
It is just business as usual for the favored few, with wet lips and long tongues.. and fat wallets.
WHY WE SHOW THESE TWO? SIMPLE.....
FROM THE PAST TO THE PRESENT... AND POSSIBLY FUTURE.... THE SAME SHAME ON THE BREED.
These are not the only examples of what or who the ZTP is for today. How many times we have heard of dogs with false Hip scores.. or the dog in Denmark with white marking.. or the dog with laid back ears and nervous in the field,.. or the dog who did not pass the BH... or the dog which runs off.. or the dog which tries to attack the participants.. or the over sized dog... or the dog which failed before...
And all of them passing the ZTP with good grades.. because....
It is just business as usual for the favored few, with wet lips and long tongues.. and fat wallets.
Ever wonder anymore why this breed is in decline?
YOU BE THE JUDGE
I really don't know what is worse: to pass weak minded dog or to pass aggressive one. Probably equal. Anyway, this test is no good for years now, and not because of the dogs but because of the judges.
ReplyDeleteYup they are taking money for it.
ReplyDeleteThis is why my dog no ZTP. What for??? To say IDC it has? To be in the "club" of theese people? What ZTP judge is honest? Where we can go to this judge? Nowhere...20 years ago a ZTP was something. Now nothing. Just like Sieger. :-(
ReplyDeleteHans Wiblishauser = die negative selektion
ReplyDeleteSo, ZTP can be purchased, 2 out of 10 IPOs are fake, Körung is joke, shows are fixes. What else is there? Is there anything truthful, sincere and honoroable in the Dobermann breed?
ReplyDeleteOn the contrary - 2 out of 10 IPO's are real!
ReplyDeleteWell, come to Finland and see that 10 out of 10 IPO trials made on Finland are real, for sure. Even with Dobermanns ;)
ReplyDeleteEverybody knows what the guys from DV had done for centuries and still do it. Insider doesn't publish any spectacular or new information. The most of his topics are open secrets.
ReplyDeleteSo his blog won't take any effect. Without any reliable facts and hard evidences we can't get rid of our "gods". If we want to change the leadership, we have to acquire save evidences and bring the men up before court, where the prosecutors and judges will do their job.
All the rest discussions and commotions are completely useless!
Mr. W., Mr. B., etc. laugh at us. Because in their opinion we are just a cowardly flock of sheep. They are acquainted with the fact that they can do everything and nothing will happen. That’s why they dare everything. They have lost the fear of the consequences for their actions.
The next problem is that there are no suitable successors in Germany. The DV managed it to wipe out all the sensible people. I don't know who can be the right candidates for the leadership. The DV is full of brownnosers who have no clue about the breed.
ReplyDeleteWhen the people continue to feed this system as members of clubs associated with DV this never ends and all gangsters of clubs and DV know this very well LEAVE THIS SYSTEM don´t feed this gangsters LEAVE THE CLUBS put all out build honest clubs whit real honest people NOW Gute Fahrt IDC Schafe
ReplyDeletethe only way to change thing is:
ReplyDeletethe whole IDC MUST be distroyed !
the whole DV MUST be distroyed !
new clubs must be built up.
You are right!
ReplyDeleteBut it is impossible :(
ztp at 78 cm male, a ztp to a 58 cm female, a ztp with a dog with a muzzle for all the time before the ztp, a ztp thjat was male at the 6.0 am in the morning with only 1 dog, a ztp made at the 9,pm after a great dinner with only 3 dogs a ztp gave to a lot of bad dogs ow weak character dogs this is whats happens in italy under Mr P!
ReplyDeleteLet's come a ztp and see only this is all true!
But not a data that was publòished...at all the anonimous ztp that mr P make!
Who are these 78cm and 58cm dogs?
ReplyDeleteYes, who are those dogs?
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting for all.
...or for example ZTP where that same MrP is judging three dogs of his own breeding and guess what: all three get V1ECC and one is of course ZTP of the day. How about that? I am talking about his DD litter.
ReplyDeleteConcrete names, please :)
ReplyDeleteJust how many ZTP judges with P initial do you know?
ReplyDeleteI guess people are interested in the names of the dogs who are 78 and 58 cm....
ReplyDeleteSo according to you it is normal when someone judges its own dogs and it is nothing in comparison to satisfy your own meaningless curiosity?
ReplyDeletethe 58 cm female is out of AA the 78 cm male is out od ZZ!! Is only a case a strange case!
ReplyDeleteMy message is short:
ReplyDeleteThe king is dead, long live the king : Toscano Del Diamante Nero !
W.A.
In which context is it related to this topic???
ReplyDeleteWhat do you want to discuss ? NOBODY will change something because entire this system is constructed and protected/accepted at high levels inclusive by FCI board and national kennel clubs . Because nobody nothing did against RESPONSABLE persons which did the genocide in dobermann world .
ReplyDeleteThis genocide was done under SHOW presure , maded by JUDGES from both sides and now continue because entire race genepool is ill and filled by ilnesses !
Who can stop that ?
Few persons which bla bla bla here ?
@W.A.
ReplyDeleteI guess that is the reason why you mated to Backstep.
..nobody can stop how system run, then remained only one way to win the game : to play their game in THEIR mode and to win .
ReplyDeleteThis is the CONTEXT !
Anonimus ...and what do you sugested ? DCM or Wobbler , Torsions , Cancer or Displazia of YOUR lines ? Be sincere !
ReplyDeleteI mated on Quickstep because basical is a Naplemente and old Eastern Mitocondrial male , because inside is D'acciaio and Pezzano play the game well and because inside is a triple Diamante Nero -last Furstemgfeld line .
ReplyDeleteAnd because he is SIEGER and he beat your dead corps in ring till le-a sunat apa in cap . Daia !
Alinierea !
P.S. Before to ask again what you asked, must to respond WHY in my country survived only two 9-10 years old females (WA and Grande Vinko females) and ALL the rest dobermanns are dead ?
ReplyDeleteWHY you filled MY country with dead corps and WHY all dobermanns endured inimaginable sorrows starting with young ages ?
Because YOUR SHIT SHOW SYSTEM WHERE ALL DIFFERENT DOBERMANNS WAS EXECUTED ?
Forgot to sign
ReplyDeleteVOM WEINBERGE AVATAR
Now..returning to your selection :-) I will bring on your attention a short article from a interview , published in forum by Robert .
ReplyDeleteIn translation :
This article was in dutch it is about simon rietvelds (once owner of dobermann magazine )visit to hermann palmer owner of von furstenfeld.
When they arrive there is a sign beware of the dogs but no dog is barking only a friendly herman palmer. Where he lived it is very isolated but later when they see all the dogs they are surprised how social and friendly they are. At the time they visit hermann palmer is already 4 years without getting pedigrees because he refuses the ztp test he claims all his dogs are good and at my age i am not doing it. He has the same attitude as mrs knijff - dermout from van neerlands stam kennel and they have deep respect for each other.
Asking : Who don't receive the pedigree ? Palmer refuse the ZTP test because his age ?
answer :1. because of his disagreement on many things with the german doberman club. he was ruled out of getting pedigrees. he also refused ztp because he said it was trained and had nothing to do with natural instinct then he said he was too old to do that with all of his dogs anyway.
Now you understood GENIALS ?
Succes with YOUR TRAINING reproduction test . Unfortunately majority deadcorps was IMPOTENTS and that can't be trained ! Maybe only..Gioco di mano ! LOL !
Is the ZTP a TRAINED test or not ?
ReplyDeleteThis is the question, this is the key !
It is not a question. It is a fact!!!
ReplyDelete90% of all dogs won't pass the protection part if they would not be prepared!
I guess Romanian expert, one Avatar just needed the push to start bashing here as well, just like you were doing on that dobermann-review site along with that other smart ass Valencia.
ReplyDeleteBoy, you can bullshit forever and whatever you want but the fact remains that a certain dog is not only container of genes, but there is also something called phenotype and that is where the male of your choice is not too strong, especially mental wise.
Story about old lines and shit don't hold the water and really, nobody is interested in that. You have produced all time theory about some old Eastern lines, and that is all product of your imagination. You, as many others are breeding dogs as they are pigs or something, minding nothing but that false genetics issues and myths, and out of from that kind of ignorance people like DV and their Italian friend can rule this mass of greedy ignorants in this sport.
The retro-elite attitude that you are trying to promote for quite a while now is just pathetic.
Training is not the issue here - judging is. Experienced judge should be able to notice the patterns in behavior weather the dog is trained or not. It is just like with athletes, some are great personalities and some are just not. Remember, half of ZTP is character and temperament test.
ReplyDeleteYou cannot always see the result is trained or inherent. A strong bite for example.
ReplyDeleteYou can train your dog to have a strong bite.
With a shot it is the same. Only a very few dogs will hold their position.
ReplyDeleteInfamaos , why you don't sign your posts ?
ReplyDeleteIn fact , there is a race test discussion and problems not about my breeding .
The PIGS , CM , Cancer, Displasia, Wobbler and molosoid characterare all around and penetrated entire the breed and nothing remained.
Nothing remained intact , then your accousations are only shit and personal atack .
Do you consider Quickstep weakenes and only a bag of genes ? I remember to you that he is actual IDC sieger and Vice World Champion .
Then you are free to bla bla and kiss your dogs pedigree FIX in their ASS because I BET that they filled the world with ilnesses .
Tell us your dogs pedigree and I will tell you exactly what BAG of SHIT GENES they carry .
Regarding if ZTP is trained, sure that he is how long BH is required and how long after that dogs are special trained .
ReplyDeleteSure....a good dobermann will pass the ZTP with training or without training . The real problem is that dobermanns with improper character passed the trained ZTP and IPO and filled the entire genepool with their SHIT genes . This is the problem !
"I remember to you that he is actual IDC sieger and Vice World Champion ."
ReplyDeleteI remember he bit his handler by the stomach on WDS and that happened in the ring. I also remember him winning IDC solely on audience's pressure.
"Regarding if ZTP is trained, sure that he is how long BH is required and how long after that dogs are special trained .
Sure....a good dobermann will pass the ZTP with training or without training . The real problem is that dobermanns with improper character passed the trained ZTP and IPO and filled the entire genepool with their SHIT genes . This is the problem !"
This can't be more truth. It's the marketing that is bringing the breed down, that and internet. So, every online-fool can claim its breeding top.
P.S.
I am signing my comments, just like that Avatar does.
That's why I think it isn't terrible if a dog slides from the sleeve. Crucial to me is that the dog attacks the helper and doesn't run away!!!
ReplyDeleteA strong bite you can train.
Infamous , you have right in a direction.. My dogs play Russian Roulette because from 15 years longevive dobermanns nothing remained and now world is filled by YOUR LINES Wobbler, Stomachal Torsions , Displasia , PIG eyes . They are NOT my creation , is YOURS .
ReplyDeleteIs true that I have my theory based on pedigree study and in my theory that lines are UNIQUE which still carry right genes.
Maybe personal I will fail , maybe nothing remained to do, but for sure , if this race will survive , I BET that will be because the right genes succed to survive when race is filled by a ocean of ilnesses !
Regarding theory of my country linbes, that are FACTS ,in my contry only few females have now +9 years and no one is from Big Breeders kennels. Still exist dobermanns without pedigree which live now at 17!
ReplyDeleteThey endured YOUR SHIT SYSTEM GENOCIDE because SHOW PRESURE and A SHIT WRONG SELECTION !
This is a TRUE .
Bye Infamous and don't forgot to kiss the ass of your deadcorps .
Unfortunately I will be not on IDC then I wish Succes to next IDC show !
W.A.
AnonymousAugust 20, 2013 at 4:09 PM
ReplyDeleteCrucial to me is that the dog attacks the helper and doesn't run away!!! A strong bite you can train.
Very correct statement ! Bravo.
A dog with not very technical biting mean that he is not well trained . Important is courage and native atack and reaction . But Judges always will downgrade this ! This is the problem and falsity !
We had a quite similar topic at the korung.
ReplyDeleteFor me Savon did a good job. He attacked the helper. After he slid for the sleeve he attacked the helper again. So I don't understand what's wrong with the dog.
He had a bad training, that's all. But Savon has right assessments!
The whole ZTP-test are pretty shitty. Let the helper come out from left to the right and not from right to the left (as usual). The most dogs will have problems because they are confused of the new situation.
So the ZTP doesn't have any validity!
The test is only a cash cow for the DV-judges!!!
I bet that the most dogs with a passed ZTP won't pass a spontaneous ZTP-test. I mean without any preparation, although they passed the test initially.
ReplyDeleteThat's why in my opinion the ZTP doesn't make any sense. It is only a right preparation and has no validity!
There is no such thing as "spontaneous breeding test". We are talking about dog sport here. How do you imagine that a dog can pass on bite if it's not being trained? Not every dog is able to bite, and bite hard, but each has to be trained for bite so the dog does it safely and within its own full potential. The purpose of the biting part is to evaluate how a dog acts under immense pressure by the helper, but to do that a dog has to learn how to hit and hold the sleeve correctly, so some training must occur. It is not about competition level of bite work, but about simple steady grip around the sleeve. Do your homework guys.
ReplyDeleteFinally you understood :-)
ReplyDeleteAll the best !
W.A.
Infamous painterAugust 20, 2013 at 5:20 PM
ReplyDeleteThere is no such thing as "spontaneous breeding test". We are talking about dog sport here. How do you imagine that a dog can pass on bite if it's not being trained?
HA ha ha ha ha h
Infamouse , that prove AGAIN that you NEVER knowed a NATIVE dog which BITED hard from first atack , without any preparation before!
This is the statement that you make part from this system and your dogs incapable to think, incapable to have a native biting .
And this is NOT SPORT , We discuss here about race selection .
Your mind confusion is dangerouse and this is the way of race destruction and INFECTION !
..probable Infamouse saw only "dobermanns" with Big Heads as and NO Brain in head , incapable to distinguish a child game by a true atack .
ReplyDeleteSorry...because he knowed only elephants. His error can be understood . :-)
Before to talk again , I recomand to this Infamouse to carefully see the next video. Maybe he will understand the differance between a what mean a surogate and a true dobermann .
ReplyDeleteBe sincere in your mind ..do you ever saw Flaying Elephants ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rxnbSBzr0
The stupidity of this breeding system is that this working dogs which REAL are functional in comparations with Big empty heads which died by stomachal torsions, hearts or losted their legs on working fields because displasia and incapable to jump 1 meter because never a Elephant can't fly , that true dobermanns was eliminated from breeding stoc !
ReplyDeleteNot because they are not dobermanns, not because they are not functional , not because they are not smart , maybe too smart , but because they are not on trend and do not resisted with tred comparation .
This practice is maded till the high level by Judges from all sides !
Don't worry...now that lines don't exist anymore to be eliminated ...The Judges of the System did their Job very well.
Yeah, that's right. Keep living in the past, of which, by the way, you're never a part. Keep on with Youtube expertise, that would lead you to no where.
ReplyDeleteAs per nativity, excuse me but you are an idiot: it is one thing to naturally bite the sleeve and completely another to resist the immense pressure of willing helper with the stick, as seen on last Körung in case of Savon.
Dear Infamnous
ReplyDeleteI do not live in the past But I had in past a incredible dobermann . Then I know what I talk because I am capable to make the differance . Then I don't talk from Youtube . I only try to open your closed mind because you breeded only Elephants incapable to THINK !
Your TRAINER forgot to learn your dobermanns to be smart .
But You are soo smart , that you are ready to pay $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to your Big Trainer to learn your stupid dog to resist to..Helper presure.LOLLLLL
LOLLL
Best Joke ! Ever !
You select the race with a CLOTH PRESURE !
In reeality , in a real situation...your dog will bite not the infractor , but the lady purse .
Because YOUR TRAINER NEVER WILL SUBSTITUTE THE BRAIN !
Go ahead with your false teachings , Mr. INFAMOUSE !
You get a SHIT anonim name.
Presure !
ReplyDeleteLOL LOL ! Best Joke ! Ever !
This is the prove that YOU NEVER knowed a true dobermann and never try REAL to atak him and his owner. Qfter you will see 1 time in your stupid life a real dobermann atack , you will NEVER offer us lessons about surrogates presure !
LOLLLL ..presure with a cloth...
P.S. leave the cloth down ! and you will see what will do your stupid "furiouse" elephant !
LOL
In this mode was DESTROYED THIS FANTASTIC WORKING BREED and fantastic dobermanns was substituted with that dobermanns ...
ReplyDeletePresure with a cloth .... I am really impressed
LOL
Poor dobermann breed , poor working lines !
Bye !
P.S. what do you think that the show dobermann will do if helper will leave the sleeve down and will real atack the owner (which in majority of cases are not near dog , near dog is onlt the TRAINER )!
ReplyDeleteAnswer to that before to tell us how YOU selected with presure ...dobermann race !
LOL
Regading Quickestep...
ReplyDeleteI don't saw what happened if he real bited the handler on WDS . If is true , probable was nervouse and his nervs break down under show presure .
That can prove some nervouse instability and I can't contst that because some his ancestors was not so strong on character. But in reality , basical he is a open character dog with a equilibrate genetic .
The truth was sayed !
ReplyDeleteSucces to select dobermann breed. With trainers (which learn dogs to resist to presure) & $$$ . LOL !
Bye Bye Genials !
Fucking Avatar lost it again! Get a grip you moron!
ReplyDeleteYou destroyed my bloodline the race genepool character and healt , we will destroy your system shit ideology !
ReplyDeleteBye again !
The working abilities of the dobermann have gone very down.
ReplyDeleteJust compare them with a Malinois or a German Shepherd.
You will see that a dobermann doesn't stand a chance!
Our breed is now only for hobby-dog-sporstmen of interest.
Just look at the professional dog-sporstmen, they don't take a dobermann for their work.
Incorrect.
ReplyDeleteyou tried to say that dog-sportmen don't take Elephants with great dane character for their work :-)
Let's await the FCI IPO World Championship by the end of september.
ReplyDeleteI'm anxious to how many dobermanns will be under top 20.
There won't be any dobermann in the top 20!!!
ReplyDeleteLet me guess, each of you "experts" is famous working dog sportsman with the results behind you and knowledge about working aspects of the breed.
ReplyDelete@vorzüglich:
ReplyDeleteAnd what are your achievements in the dogsport world???
Let all of us take part on enormous know-how!
Basical, the ZTP is good but was transformed in a incorrect selection instrument .
ReplyDeleteWhy I said this ? Because what happen today in dobermann breed confirm that . Unfortunately was transformed in a instrument incapable to distinguish between native character dobermanns and trained dobermanns . More that, BH is a condition , then is a invitation to train the dobermanns . Then majority dobermanns are very well trained.
The nativity was sbstituted with Pavlov repetitions. Incorrect and nervouse dobermanns was promoted as etalons . Their bloodlines are today all around and filled the dobermann world with actual diseases. The nervosity or too low in character dobermanns produce victims for humans and in dobermann breed too.
The improper working phisical dobermanns was promoted at high levels and judges do NOT respect the standard limit 72cm . They promoted Elephants with big bones , fully by cancer and torsions in their high levels shows. That elephansts fully by titles produced descendants , fully by titles too .
In this time the real and capable for working dobermanns was eliminated .
The SHOWS TITLES and TRAINED ZTP must to stop to select this race .
The elite which transformed dobermann breeding in a monopol and industry must to dissapear .
We need a simply selection test , which must to evaluate the native character . All correct dobermanns must to easy pass this test how long they are correct on genotype, on body and mind .
Only in this was will be recovered health and meybe the losted character of dobermann breed . I said Maybe because the sorrow is soo deep and race soo afected genetically than is not sure that will be possible.
That joker Fabrizio Coppola is now lecturing something called ZTP Seminar in Lithuania. That is how far and funny this whole thing can go. Hilarious.
ReplyDelete---
ReplyDeleteThat joker Fabrizio Coppola is now lecturing something called ZTP Seminar in Lithuania. That is how far and funny this whole thing can go. Hilarious.
---
Could you explain your statement, please???
It is with out a doubt to bad that the Dobermann is not what it have been, but even more that the owners and judges are so dishonest!!!
ReplyDeleteWhat right do we have to cheat with hip results? Or why is it that the Dobermann needs to be bigger and bigger?
Isn't a working dog?? What about missing teeth? Or white markings?
We owe it to the breed to be honest!
---
ReplyDeleteThat joker Fabrizio Coppola is now lecturing something called ZTP Seminar in Lithuania. That is how far and funny this whole thing can go. Hilarious.
---
Could you explain your statement, please???
---
Yes, I can: Who is Fabrizio Coppola? Except for being anal intruder to Thomas Becht, hence the dickhead hairstyle.
You are very funny!
ReplyDeleteAnonymousAugust 27, 2013 at 9:17 AM
ReplyDeletewhy is it that the Dobermann needs to be bigger and bigger?
_______________
YOU NOTHING UNDERSTOOD !
THE BIG BREEDERS AND BIG JUDGES NEED BIG DOBERMANNS TO BE TRAINED IN THEIR BIG SELECTION BY BIG TRAINERS TO MAKE A BIG SHIT .
THE QUESTION IS WHY THEY CHOICED DOBERMANNS AND DO NOT CHOICED DIRECTLY GREAT DANES OR..ELEPHANTS.
Big dogs are much needed because judges's vision deteriorates with time. And yes they are very old now but they are not willing to step down and make place for younger eyes. Something like communism or fascism if you like.
ReplyDeleteThat's hilarious... the judges are getting so old that they need to magnify the breed to see it properly.
ReplyDeleteThis breed is becoming even more of a caricature with extreme sexual dimorphism - tiny bitches and giant dogs.
What needs to be done is very simple:
1) Make a doorway just wide and high enough for the biggest within-standard Dobermann to fit through without crouching and mark a thick red line to make the minimum allowable height visible.
2) Install this doorway at the entrance to the ring - it would be sort of like the hand-luggage dimension checking apparatus they have at airports these days.
3) If your dog can't fit, no show for you!
AnonymousAugust 28, 2013 at 1:25 AM
ReplyDeleteThis breed is becoming even more of a caricature with extreme sexual dimorphism - tiny bitches and giant dogs.
_____________
Sorry but I must to contradict you , I saw Giant females from giant lines in ring and win. That females have IPO (sure that females was sended for training on Italy, Ukraina , Germany ) and owners consider them "good for working" .
Regarding that giant dogs , in normal mode, after 72 cm a male must be downgraded in qualificative . But what that judges did ? They eliminated ALL in standard different bloodlines and they promoted that huge dogs till the IDC sieger and World Siegers . Now that lines construct the race genepool and our dobermanns are affected and died by cancer, DCM and torsions .
I'm not denying that there are giant females, but they're not the trend unlike these giant males. They look like puppies along side them.
ReplyDeleteOh yes they are...trend.
ReplyDeleteIt is said that the size is compensation for something else.
ReplyDeleteThere is a bit of domesticated fraud aspect to ZTP
ReplyDelete- dogs are being trained and tried with that very same helper as it is on the trial itself
- ...and on the same ground so they have time and tries to accomodate to the environment
- acting group of the people and especially the ones that are closest to the dog: pebble and umbrella, are usually persons that are familiar to the dog
- helper is virtually serving the sleeve to dogs and then it all comes down to coreography
- judges are being misled by organizers of the test, except maybe for A. Hoppe who is known for improvising on the spot, thus escaping trained routines
- if you want to really explore your dog's potential make ZTP abroad, otherwise it is all one big fix.
AnonymousAugust 28, 2013 at 11:24 PM
ReplyDeleteIt is said that the size is compensation for something else.
------------------
Yes, always the size was compensation for no brain !
I am stretched to breaking point who will win this year the most important title in the dobermann world and what kind of rotten decisions our gods/judges will make.
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, we will have a lot to discuss!
Lets have some fun - lets guess who will be Siegers this year!
ReplyDeleteI think black males will be Orson von Nemesis and black female his littermate Ophira von Nemesis... I am not sure about the Brownies...
The likely winners are -
ReplyDeleteBlack Siegerin = Weta Monte Aspro
[ they need Attilio on their side, and she is good female]
Brown Sieger = OZ Casa Giardino
[ DV Sieger and tme for Italians again ]
Brown Siegerin = Odamae Nemesis
[ no need to state the obvious ]
Black Sieger........
who can pay the most money? Malbasa for Maxim or Gorbachev for Sidor? Let us see the big surprise this year...
I don't think that Ophira will win, her sister Ophelia was mated with Ale Alamos. So she is favoured in comparison to Ophira.
ReplyDeleteAnd there are a lot of better brown males as Oz di Casa Giardino!!!
ReplyDeleteYou are right, Oz di Casa Giardino doesn't deserve this title.
ReplyDeleteThere will be no Maxim, no Malbasa, no Altobello this year, except the Altobello-dogs owned by others.
ReplyDeleteI suggest there will be more surprises as assumed.
ReplyDeleteforecasts young class?
ReplyDelete"forecasts young class?"
ReplyDeleteAnd what are YOUR forecasts?
Juniorsieger black males: Dobergaarden Forever Maximus
ReplyDeleteI bet on Jumior Black Sieger Toscano DN and next year will be Black males IDC Sieger .
ReplyDeleteHe is unique male which can deserve that titles.
I heard that IDC changed the dobermann standard starting with 2015 and ban the docked/croped dogs.
ReplyDeleteThat is true ?
As I said : Toscano DN - IDC 2013 JUGENDSIEGER and YOUTH WORLD CHAMPION !
ReplyDeletehe's UNIQUE male which deserve this title !Is writed in his blood.
Toscano the Best :)
ReplyDeleteYes , he is the best , because dobermann is not only a show-dog . Genetically Toscano is important.
ReplyDeletePersonal I don't like majority rest of winners genetic. Sorry.
we want know more about the new standard!
ReplyDeleteIs simply. Starting with 2015 Bye Bye original croped dobermann.
ReplyDeleteFinally they "protected " dobermann breed.
Bye bye original cropped dobermann! you are all crazy someone was or seen the photos the last IDC 2013? And the other countries of the world all America Asia and other accept this stupid idea? Or the stupid and pathetic guys from DV think the world it's only Europe! You are really insane who believe in this stupidity idea for 2015. Of course saying that this law only in Europe no exists there are not number sufficient of dogs for compete in the countries especially in adult ages. Even in IDC 2015. One year is very little many excellent dogs will to lose and especially the Italians will do not go in this stupidity. One year is not enough. 2016 it's can be the correct date. But all this really shit it's of course a joke
ReplyDeleteI will keep croped dobes for myself and uncroped for reproduction .
ReplyDeletethis is not race protection !
Every year as we all see IDC is worse and worse. It looks like maitres laugh at us. This year's siegerins (especially the brown Havana)are just disasters. Toscano... If I had to keep this "Winner" I would better change a breed... I don't even want to tell anything about others. And now the control shot in the head - standard will be changed... Bye bye our beautiful breed, they kill you with letting to mate bad-tempered dogs(which get ZTP by political reason), using and hidding DCM -carrier producers and etc... There is nothing to say else...
ReplyDeleteYou don't want to tell anything about others but you tell about Toscano ! Good choice !
ReplyDeleteWhat about Toscano ? He is beautiful , is unique different.
Why you don't tell about others and their problems hided on their pedigrees ? Do you know minimal genetic , have minimal informations about race ancestors which do not pass over 8 years ?
IDC can not change standard, only DV can.
ReplyDeletebla bla bla but Toscano is the only true future for the Dobermann
ReplyDeleteToscano will be one of the sought after males in the future. And not just because of his quality. But because of his father and breeder.
ReplyDeleteA breeder today is , tomorrow will be not. Remainig or not his breeding .
ReplyDeleteIn Toscano case,it is true, because his father and mother lines , but going back , because his ancestors toward Furstenfeld bloodline.
Only Furstenfeld can restore the losted equilibrum of dobermann breed . Then Toscano is important .
Why nobody discuss for example by a siegerin, sister by father with a dobermann male which make pee when saw a pussicat ? Maybe the siegerin have not that problem , but I have seriouse doubts about that bloodlines character.
ReplyDeleteWhich siegerin do you talk about?
ReplyDeletetoscano has done nothing yet we don't know what he will or can produce and already he can save the breed. yes my ass.
ReplyDeletefurstenfeld bla bla is gone. No one can save the dobermann. Especially now we will get uncropped dobermanns. BYE BYE Dobermann. I will never take a uncropped dobermann.
Mr Robbert ,
ReplyDeleteToscano is very young and till now he get anything possible !
WE will win because because WE have the WILL and knowledges to win and because this bloodline have historical right and nobody can stop that ! This is deep wroted in genetical code of our dobermanns , all who don't respect that WILL DIE BY INIMAGINABLE GENETIC ILNESSES !
NOBODY CAN STOP THAT!
and remember : the blood never will transform in water !
ReplyDeleteUrbano did bring back nothing just plain good dobermanns yes for sure but he did not cure the dobermann from all illness and neither will toscano. And with the uncropped standard the dobermann is GONE.
ReplyDeletea uncropped dobermann is NO dobermann as it was invented 100 plus years ago. And ofcourse everybody is anonymous. Great to discuss with people who hide behind anonymous.
Mr Robbet, don't forgot that you are a anonymouse too.
ReplyDeleteRegarding DN bllodline which represent unique from today Furstenfeld continuity , for sure he can't cure the dobermann breed , nobody can do that . But for sure he equlibrate this race and avoided the HELL !
Because in my opinion , and I think that I know very well what I said , the HELL PASSED AT ONE STEP BY DOBERMANN BREED !
You criticize but you have no one solution .
Nobody can fast repair character ,the pride and +13 years longevity of dobermann breed . But equilibrum is necessary and Urbano did that. Toscano ,as many others his brothers and sisters, will follow .
I have no doubts.
I don't understood why Toscano is atacked ,even he represent most equilibrate genetic from IDC.
ReplyDeleteI think the "alternative" breeders from dobermann breed are zero how long they have so much brain that they atack same barricade team. That is a good explanation of zero alternative from today .
How can you comment what happen on champion class , especial starting with minute no 5 ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHHMFoHsLjU
A last message :
ReplyDeleteThe Furstenfeld last King is dead .
We, all Furstenfeld princes , need to choice a new King ! He is Toscano!
Viva Furstenfeld bloodline !
Viva the dobermann !
I like the idea to change the standard. I have undocked and uncropped Dobermanns for more than 15 years. If you love the breed itself, I do not understand why you do not want Dobermanns anymore if they are natural. They are the same dogs. Also Cars were invented more than 100 years ago. They changed much. Would one like to use a car of this design every day, nowerdays?
ReplyDeleteJust forget ears and tails and concentrate at what is in the middle.
From Chatboard, Doberman Review:
ReplyDelete2013-09-13 08:57, IP: 95.233.113.189, from Italy10 positive reactions 3 negative
To Ip Serbia: 2013-09-12 07:45, IP: 87.250.56.5, from Serbia
"IDC 2013 - Champion Class Black Males
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHHMFoHsLjU"
Thanks for the link, i will not look again this video, because for me it is a shame for the Dobermann.
A shame because of IDC politic, but also a shame because of all this peoples that are trying to push a dog that is in any point better than the sieger. and for sure the sieger isn't a real one.
This behaviour is just pathetic, and i am sure that this way you are pushing IDC dirigeants to do even more their shit politic.
I am bored about the behaviour (always from the same team) that is not able to accept to loose even if their dogs are inferior to winners.
Of course some of them are high qualities like Zoe Cooper, Savanah, etc... but they why the f*** it is always the same crappy behaviour when dogs from balkans don't get first places??? because some time they have also high quality dogs in front of them, maybe different type but still high quality.
And for sure it is not a shame to loose in front of them, just as the contrary would be not a shame too!
But they are not good persons, and really it is always the same team that have absolutly no fairplay or sportive mind.
Really it is a shame, it is sad and pitty.
They are always crying about politic of IDC and DV but i am pretty sure that with this kind of behaviour that is absolutly unfair and not objective at all, they would do even worst that our actual dirigeants (and believe me, i am sure that it is not easy!!!)
Do not worry about new standard, if you continu this way, the breed will die before 2015...
Why is Toscano attached!!!!!!!! Is the great winner of IDC. Pezzano is bigger cleverer than the german people nobody will use the fu***** shit of german dog only those who want to play politics. Pezzano and the Italians breeders keep in top of the world. What smart is the germans
ReplyDeleteDon't tell shits,Toscano win IDC for one reason,if not" Diamante Nero - CHIUSA BARACA"
ReplyDelete